THN.com Blog: When will Carbonneau be recognized by Hall of Fame committee?
Guy Carbonneau played for the Montreal Canadiens and Dallas Stars over his 18-year NHL career. (Photo by Scott Cunningham/Getty Images)
Brian Costello
2008-08-10 10:27:13
In an era when goal-scoring is approaching a 50-year low, when even star players are admonished for not backchecking, when assistant coaches are mandated to find ways to shut down the opposition’s top scorers, one defensive giant continues to go unappreciated.
Guy Carbonneau is one of hockey’s all-time great defensive forwards, yet the hockey authorities on the Hall of Fame’s selection committee continue to ignore his accomplishments.
Since first becoming eligible for the Hall of Fame in 2003, Carbonneau has created nary a ripple of interest among the 18 voters, 14 of which are required to give a thumbs-up for a candidate to gain entry.
It’s convenient to induct the offensive gurus and goaltending greats. Superstars Mark Messier, Ron Francis, Ray Bourque, Paul Coffey and Patrick Roy among others in recent years made the decision too easy.
But greatness in the game of hockey should and does go beyond the obvious perusal of statistics. The defensive defenseman has been recognized with the induction of Rod Langway in 2002 and Scott Stevens in 2007. The goalie with the winning pedigree was recognized with Grant Fuhr in 2003, even though his statistics were far from extraordinary.
Even specialists and playoff performers have been given their due with the inclusion of Igor Larionov and Glenn Anderson this year, Dick Duff in 2006 and Clark Gillies in 2002. Players with injury-shortened careers? Pat LaFontaine in 2003 and Cam Neely in 2005.
So why has the defensive forward been given such short shrift by the Hall of Fame? Is it because defensive hockey isn’t all that exciting and is an element of the game the league has been making countless efforts to move away from? Would it be embarrassing to induct a defensive forward as the average goals-per-game dwindles down into the low fives?
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Guy Carbonneau was a defensive great for most of his 18 NHL seasons. He was a huge reason why three of his teams went on to win Stanley Cups. He won the Selke Trophy as the game’s top defensive player three times and was runner-up twice. Only Hall of Famer Bob Gainey can match that number of five times as a winner or runner-up.
To strengthen Carbonneau’s case further, his offensive numbers (260 goals and 663 points) are superior to Gainey’s (239 goals and 502 points). Gainey was once called the best all-around player in the world by Russian coach Anatoli Tarasov because he had the ability to both contribute to the offense and stymie the opposition. Carbonneau was much the same player a decade later. A true defensive great.
So if the league gives out an award for defensive greatness among forwards, shouldn’t the Hall of Fame recognize that greatness as well? It’s hypocritical that it doesn’t, especially in an era when attempting to shut down the opposition is the common denominator in the game plan of all 30 NHL teams.
Brian Costello is The Hockey News’s senior special editions editor and a regular contributor to THN.com. You can read his Top 10 list on Wednesdays and his blog each weekend.
For more great profiles, news and views from the world of hockey, Subscribe to The Hockey News magazine.
habs in 2009 (Posted 2008-09-01 15:27:26)
Carbo was no slouch during his junior years (182 pts in 79-80) or in the AHL (88 and 94 pts) and he was a decent offensive threat in the NHL (five seasons of 20-or-more goals). But he was just that much better than anyone else at shutting down the opposition. I think personally feel that Carbonneau had the same effect on the defensive forward "role" as Patrick Roy had on the goaltending position.
Maxime (Posted 2008-08-26 17:02:04)
Carbo, Hall worthy...but so are many others. Everybody makes strong points about wether or not he should be in, but many seem to forget the whole point of the article is to wonder why defensive players don't get as much HoF consideration than others...Carbonneau is only one the best defensive player to have played in the past years (or one of the best) and is being used as an example. It is true that coaches all want players to work on their defensive side, and yet, the NHL seems to promote the idea that you have to score 50 goals a season to be considered a superstar. Ironic, isn't it? Everybody that keeps on arguing wether or not Carbonneau is Hall worthy have totally missed the articles' point. And everyone who says Carbonneau wasn't part of a dinasty like other players can get something into their heads : the Habs are a dinasty in its history itself. Anyone wearing the Habs jersey has been, is and will have been part of a dinasty. Once your team reaches 100 years of pro experience, than you too will have the right to call it "a dinasty". Any other team can claim whatever they want, 10 years of being dominant is called being "a good stretch". If any team you root for reaches its 100th season without moving to Albuquerque (most probably typed it wrong), then we can start talking about a dinasty.
Steve Cowen (Posted 2008-08-13 19:02:19)
@el duderino, I guess you are saying Kovalchuk is better then Gretzky, cause back in '93, Carbo was very successful at shutting down the great one. So the question is more would Kovalchuk ever get a shot on net, a few , but great quality chances would be unlikely. The comparison could be made between Carbo and Datsyuk. We saw a great defensive forward dominate Crosby and Malkin, even throw in Stall into the mix. (2 of those three certainly are better than Kovalchuk). So gimme a Carbo anyday of the week, and if you opened your eyes you would realize just how realistic it is .
Angelo (Posted 2008-08-12 21:21:58)
@JacktheHat: True, Carbo played for Dallas with the guys you mentioned, except his legacy was not built around those guys, it was built in Montreal. He played a meer 5 seasons with Dallas and Hull, Lethinen, Zubov and Belfour were not there all 5 years. Players came and went during those Dallas years. Draper has been playing with the caliber of guys i mentioned his entire career. Are you seriously comparing Carbo to Draper? WHO IS DRAPER without those guys. Carbo was the man for the Habs. The 86 and 93 were won with strong defense, in which Carbo was the biggest factor...next to ROY. Draper won Cups with offensive power-houses. HOW CAN YOU COMPARE. Another classic case of jealous Habs haters who have to make an excuse. I bet Doug Gilmour deseves the Hall of Fame right?
el duderino (Posted 2008-08-12 20:17:46)
@steve cowan, a team of kovalchuks would kill the team of carbos any day. carbo would never touch the puck, and even when he did he wouldnt be able to score cuz thats not what he does. be realistic.
Steve Cowen (Posted 2008-08-12 20:08:33)
Gimme a team of Carbonneau's over a team of Kovalchuks anyday. The arguemant that anyone can learn to play great defense is a joke. Lets see Kovalchuk throw his body in front of a puck game after game. Not gonna happen . Or even play for the "TEAM" and not his own ego. And if there is any question over which will truimph. Look at this years cup finals. The pens had what were supposed to be the best 2 offensive players in the game. But oddly enough it seemed like Detroit always had the puck. And if you wanna compare that to Carbo, look back to '93 and see who it was that he was able to shut down . Carbo is certainley one of the games best of all time and deserves to be recognized as such. (And before you come back with well Draper..., I have no arguement against him having his spot one day)
JackTheHat (Posted 2008-08-12 12:34:22)
@Angelo: "Carbo" also played in Dallas with the likes of Modano, Hull, Belfour, Zubov, Lehtinen, and Hatcher (who was still good). Those are just players I can name off the top of my head, and they aren't too shabby either.
Angelo (Posted 2008-08-12 09:38:51)
How in God's name are you comparing Draper to Carbo. Do you realize that Draper has always played with the best in the world? Yzerman, Fedorov, Hasek, Lidstrom, Datsuyk, Zetterburg, Schnieder, Rafalski, Osgood, and the list goes on and on. Who did Carbo play with??????????? Roy, ok Schnieder.............and..........well there you have it. everything that Carbo was, was done on his own. Draper became, what he became, because of the support he got from all the Detroit superstars. Draper is no Carbo and Carbo deserves the HHOF a hell of alot more than Draper. And by the way RedToronto, an offensive defensmen is more than just a role, its a title and the pinnacle to a teams success, hence 3 line 4 line.
Naddad (Posted 2008-08-12 09:08:34)
So, Pat, in essence, you're saying that only skaters who put up big numbers deserve to be in the HOF? If you are not saying that, and you believe there is room in the HOF for defensive forwards, then you obviously don't know hockey too well because Carbonneau and Draper are among the game's best ever defensive forwards. Madden? I'd include him too, provide his game doesn't slip between now and retirement. He's a tremendous asset to the Devils' game plan and PK.
Devil John Madden (Posted 2008-08-12 02:26:27)
I have no problem with Draper getting in the HOF- as long as it rightly happens after my induction.
Pat Stewart (Posted 2008-08-12 00:31:22)
Draper going to the Hall? COME ON MAN!! I like him but there's no way that he gets in. His induction would cheapen the Hall even more. Carbo's too. There is already a lot of players that dont deserve to be in there.
Tommy P (Posted 2008-08-11 23:57:23)
Defense is king in all sports. The Boston Celtics won the NBA title this year and guess who had the top ranked defense? That would be Boston. The Red Wings have arguably the best defensive core of any team and we all know who got Lord Stanley's chalice this year. In the Super Bowl, the Giants defense stifled the best offense of the Patriots for four quarters and held them to 14 points all game. In Baseball, pitchers are the best defense and the World Series winning Boston Red Sox have three of the best in Jon Lester, Josh Beckett and Daisuke Matzuzaka. DEFENSE IS KING!!!!! Guy Carbonneau was the epitomized great defense his whole career and so far not too much of a slouch behind the bench. Give the man his due already!
Naddad (Posted 2008-08-11 22:38:30)
Carbonneau and Draper both desreve to make the HOF. A former defenseman myself, I always appreciated forwards who helped out on defense.
RedToronto (Posted 2008-08-11 21:50:34)
And Draper won the World Cup of Hockey with Canada too, and played many times for Canada, Carbonneau never once played for Team Canada.
So as far as I am concerned Draper is just as HoF worthy as Carbonneau, eithe they both get in or neither gets in.
RedToronto (Posted 2008-08-11 21:39:35)
If Carbonneau gets into the Hall on trophies, unselfishness, defense and shot blocking, then I want Draper in the Hall as well. Four cups (and still counting), a Selke, part of a quasi dynasty (unlike Carbonneau) he is unselfish, plays defense, amongst the league leaders in faceoff wins, is a leader, has less negative +/- seasons than Carbonneau, won a Gold with the junior team and patriotically played two full seasons with the National team. All that, quite comparable to Carbonneau, and I honestly would be stunned if Draper made it into the HoF.
I agree a player does not need to be part of a dynasty to make the Hall but that clearly is, or at least was something that the committee looks quite favourably on. But just because Carbonneau played for the legendary Montreal Canadiens, that doesn't mean he automatically gets in.
D4..."he had to learn defense to make the Montreal team" Right, defense can be learned, a defensive player is not all of a sudden going to score 40-50 goals. And beating out Dan Daoust, while he was one of my favourite Leafs as a kid, is not a tough thing to do as Daoust's hockey career demonstrated, Dan Daoust once missed the net on a breakaway....and the net was empty!!!
Wow, what a debate. All that but based on the numbers, 4 Cups, 3 Selkes, I would not be entirely surprised if Carbonneau got in, but most of the arguments made here have not convinced me.
RedToronto (Posted 2008-08-11 20:56:46)
"Carbo is probably the best offensive defensmen to ever play the game"...He was not a defenseman, nor was he offensive player. He actually had 100+ point seasons in junior, but there are probably hundreds of high scoring juniors whose offensive talent never translated to the NHL. If he was that good on offense, Montreal would have been stupid to not use him in an offensive role. There are hundreds of unselfish players, unselfishness alone does not make one Hall worthy, nor does shot blocking. Blocking shots...read up on Craig Ludwig.
Five Kovalchuks over Carbonneau is not moot, that is my point exactly. All the players you named prove my point absolutely perfectly...it is not all about puck possesion, defensive intelligence can be taught and acquired. Yzerman was a negative +/- player 5 of 8 seasons and even once...the rest of his career, he never had a negative +/- season. Why he chose to play a two-way game to win a Cup and still put big offensive numbers (That story is a famous one for him). Hawerchuk...exactly, do you think a pure defensive player can all of a sudden take on an offensive role like Hawerchuk took on a defensive role.
RedToronto (Posted 2008-08-11 20:44:14)
JCM...next time, before commenting towards me I ask you actually read everything I say. You telling me it is the Hockey Hall of fame, not the NHL HoF is insulting, considering I made points that agreed with you! Re: Larionov helping lead the Russians, his point scoring in Russia, Lafontaine being American, Gainey winning the first 4 Selkes...I never ever said it was all about offense or all about the NHL.
Prospects that couldn't play defense, I look squarely at the coaching then. I am of the opinion that defensive intelligence can be taught whereas pure goal scoring skill, knack, shooting ability whatever you want to call it, while it can definitely be worked on I believe it is next to impossible to teach.
georgeq (Posted 2008-08-11 18:56:49)
When will the THN 2008-09 yearbook come out?! argh.
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-08-11 18:25:05)
The argument of 5 Kovalchuks over Carbaneau is moot. 5 Gretzkys, Howes, Orrs, M. Lemeiuxs, etc. would do the same. If a team always has puck possession, it doesn't matter how good the other team is. Some shots have to go in. And D4 is correct. Most of the best defensive forwards were usually offensive scorers. Look at Stevie Y. or what Hawerchuk would do as 3rd center (behind Gretz & Lemeiux) on Canadian national teams.
D4 Power (Posted 2008-08-11 18:04:30)
Guy Carbonneau played Junior , I believe, in Chicoutimi and had outstanding offensive scoring numbers. When he came to the NHL, he had to learn defense to make the Montreal team, winning out a competition for defensive center over Dan Daoust. Guy gave of himself for the sake of the Montreal team and went on to become an outstanding team player with quite decent offensive stats in a defensive role. And, have you ever seen anyone, anywhere, blocks shots better than Guy? This guy did it all unselfishly and merits to be in the Hall.
Angelo (Posted 2008-08-11 15:49:57)
El Duderino: Yes the Habs destryoed the bruins all season, but you cant "what if". Why? Well, what if Montreal won two more games against Toronto, one more against Florida and add one against the Rangers, but they lose 4 against Boston. You see, nothing would change, the Habs would still win the conference. Carbo deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. You dont need to be part of a dynasty to get in there, all you need to be is that best at what you do (which involves major contributions to victories), and be a champion. Carbo is probably the best offensive defensmen to ever play the game, and if you all remember, he SHUT DOWN Gretzky BIG TIME in 1993. Carbo will get his chance soon enough.
JCM (Posted 2008-08-11 15:29:57)
Remember, it's not the NHLOF, it's the HHOF. They are rewarding not just the NHL but all of hockey. Herb Brooks coached for 7 seasons in the NHL with 4 different teams. His total NHL record was 219-222-65. He wasn't inducted for his pro record. He was inducted for his work at Minnesota (171-99-16) and his work with the the U.S. National team from his first year as a player in 1959 until he died after making a movie about the 1980 miracle on ice, he contributed to the sport of Hockey in the U.S. It's not all about points and scoring.
JCM (Posted 2008-08-11 15:16:25)
I disagree with that statement whole-heartedly. I have seen some great prospects who can't play a lick of defense, much to their coaches dismay, and often impulsive yelling after the fact. Guys that can make a move, pick a corner, but don't know whether to cover the slot or the back door or who's got what in their own zone. I do agree with the argument of Kovalchuk over Carboneau, because 5 Kovalchuks are so good that it doesn't matter what the defense or the goalie does, they are going to score. And the goalie with 5 kovalchuks assuming the soccer penalty kick formation might keep 5 carboneaus out of the net.
But, the discussion is not should superstars get in like Kovalchuck or Gretzky, it's who else should be rewarded? The Hall of Fame has inducted 19 players under the position "rover". They include Hobey Baker and Lester Patrick. And after picking a random Right Wing, George Armstrong, I found a guy who only scored 30 goals once, and had a career total of fewer than 300 goals in 21 seasons, 713 points in 1187 games. He was inducted for other reasons besides scoring supremacy for being a forward.
So I think there is a set precedence for inducting players (several of whom were inducted for "contribution to the sport" or "service to their team") for reasons beyond super stardom.
On another note, one person mentioned a set limit on inductees, that is a modern idea. They most recently inducted 5 in 1975, they inducted 27 in 1962.
RedToronto (Posted 2008-08-11 14:28:51)
Don't the facts that we are in a more defensive era and many elite offensive players can now play, and as you said, are expected to play strong defense diminish what Carbonneau did? In a straight-up hockey game, I'll take a team of Kovalchuks over a team of Carbonneaus any day because any player can learn to play elite defense, not any player can learn to play elite offense.
RedToronto (Posted 2008-08-11 14:13:18)
Gillies, eh, you could have a point here, but he did have a few solid offensive seasons and again the dynasty thing here. Gillies being a huge part of a dynasty is obviously going to be highly regarded (just like Montreal players of the 70s.)
Lafontaine, tremendous offensive stats as a forward and as an American his career carries historical significance. Neely, you have a point here, he was a special player and 50 goals in 49 games speaks for itself but he was not elite for long. Maybe the Hall does not want to punish, who they felt were, deserving HOF players just because of an injury shortened career.
Gainey, not only did Gainey win 4 Selkes (instead of 3), not only did Gainey win the award 4 years in row but he won the Selke the first 4 years it even existed as a trophy! Talk about a historical hockey achievement. Gainey was also part of a Dynasty and won the Cup 5 times to Guy's 3. If the only thing Carbonneau has over Gainey is points, then your argument can be seen as hypocritical too, because after all you are arguing Carbonneau deserves in on his defensive merits.
Yes Carbonneau won the Selke three times but so has Jere Lehtinen (and 1 Cup) and Lehtinen is a better offensive player, is Lehtinen even close to Hall worthy to you? Is Draper (4 Cups and 1 Selke to Guy's 3 +3), even close to Hall worthy to you?
Clearly two things are missing from Carbonneau's resume...not part of a Dynasty, did not do anything historically significant (sorry nominations do not count). Esa Tikanen, historically famous as a "shadow", part of a Dynasty with 4 Cups to his name and a far better offensive player is not in the Hall yet and he arguably is more deserving than Guy. If you open the door for Guy you then the door for the Jere Lehtinens of the NHL open too and Jere is no HoFer.
jim (Posted 2008-08-11 14:01:33)
Claude Lemieux? Sure, he won cups, but the enduring images of his career will be the gutless hit from behind (on a line change, yet) that crushed Kris Draper's face and his turtling response to Darren McCarty's settling-of-accounts the next season. Sure Carbo deserves the Hall, but not before Larionov. The real problem is this -- why the strict limit on the number allowed in per year? It wouldn't diminish the integrity of the HHOF to up the allowable number of inductees per year by a man or two.
Frank Grimes (Posted 2008-08-11 13:48:15)
Claude Lemieux
RedToronto (Posted 2008-08-11 13:26:07)
I am surprised nobody has really alluded to this but your case, comparing him to the players you did, is not very strong.
Stevens had some good offensive seasons and both he and Robinson played and dominated actual positions, "defensive forward" is a role, not a position.
Glenn Anderson was more than a specialist and had some tremendous offensive seasons and both he and Fuhr were part of a highly revered and rare NHL Dynasty. Montreal was never a dynasty in the 80s and 90s.
Larionov, you totally missed the boat on this one. It is the HOCKEY Hall of Fame, his numbers in Russia count too, he was not known as the "Russian Wayne Gretzky" for nothing. He was also a significant part of hockey history, helping lead Russians into the NHL and playing for what is the closest thing to a dynasty the NHL has had since the Islanders. Carbonneau, no dyansty, nothing significantly historical about his career.
JCM (Posted 2008-08-11 12:40:43)
one error, Madden has 2 cups, not 3, sorry (forgot he was still at UofM in 94-95)
JCM (Posted 2008-08-11 12:37:30)
It is a suggestion. Carbonneau was a great player. He also may have a shot as a coach if he keeps it up. To compare against the 3 best defensive forwards of our modern era? It appears that he has better numbers than Draper or madden will have in their careers and in the neighborhood of what Datsyuk will have (and you've seen that guy with the puck, scary). After comparing numbers between Guy and the others labelled best of the defensive forwards, I think he should be in. Datsyuk will be in someday if he keeps it up. If Madden and Draper can get to the 200 goal mark on their careers, they should go too because of the similar accomplishments they made before and after the lockout year.
Zetterberg is in there with the best back checkers too, but if he continues down his path, he will not need defensive stats in 15 years to get him in, but they will make him a first or 2nd ballot guy.
Should John Madden or Kris Draper see the hall??? They have selkes too and 7 stanley cups and counting. They could each win another one or two cups before they retire.
Statistics:
Madden 35yo, 636gp, 133g, 141a (0.43ppg)- 3 cups, 1 selke
Draper 37yo, 950gp, 141g, 173a (0.33ppg)- 4 cups, 1 selke
Datsyuk 30yo, 445gp, 139g, 286a (0.96ppg)- 2 cups, 1 selke
Carbonnaeu 48yo, 1318gp, 260g, 403a (0.50ppg)- 3 cups, 3 selkes.
Xuthl (Posted 2008-08-11 12:13:31)
You are all insane! Carboneau for the hall of fame??? Who's next? Todd Marchant? Are you suggesting we should starting putting work horses in the hall before legitimate stars like Pavel Bure? Holy crap!
Sam (Posted 2008-08-11 11:56:40)
Carbo should go to the hall!
D4 Power (Posted 2008-08-11 09:23:42)
Carbo should be in the Hall. His expertise and longevity should be recognized. He was a consummate team player and a strong leader.
P.S. To the habsstink idiot, You don't have to be liked by your players to be a good coach
Troy (Posted 2008-08-11 09:13:15)
Same could be said for Glenn Anderson. Glenn was known for his offensive talents and had to wait until this year before induction. Carbo's career started later but I'd presume he'll be there within the next 3-5yrs. He was a leader in Montreal & carried that to propel Dallas to a Cup in 99. He'll wait in line like all the rest.
whatsthatsmell (Posted 2008-08-11 07:44:37)
There's just too many other better players who have been elected the last few years. And Carbonneau isn't the only one who has been snubbed. Maybe the criterion to get in should be re-evaluated, given that four players can be inducted every year, yet only twice in the last 10 years has this happened.
Pierre (Posted 2008-08-11 07:13:13)
Bob Gainey was the first "complete" hockey player in playing both ways, and Carbo was his heir. Somehow we're all forgetting about Claude Provost, who shadowed Bobby Hull back in the day, and is still the forgotten one who managed to be on 9 Stanley Cup winners!!! Even despite scoring 250 goals, which at the time was a great career! Nowadays, 500 goals scored is the current criteria to get in, and enough money to buy a spot in today's HHOF...
Glen Miller (Posted 2008-08-11 00:42:57)
I don't know if they'll ever get into the Hall but every year come playoff time, every contending team would look for those hard-nosed, veteran, defensive minded players like Carbonneau and Tikannen. For the guy hoping Montreal wins the next 5 Stanley Cups; I think that Pittsburgh, Detroit and maybe even the Rangers may have something to say about that. Hell, Phoenix and the Kings are building good, strong nucleuses and may be threats by then.
Razzel-Dazzel (Posted 2008-08-11 00:02:17)
Flyerfan52 beat me to it but I feel obligated to respond, leafs fan? ME a freaking leafs fan? I've been called a lot of things in my life but a leafs fan? I think i'm going to be sick! But seriously Josh I was responding to some idot with the ID *habs stink * believe me its the only time you'll ever see me write those words. Oh, and by the way, flyerfan52 I think you were a little to generous with the 1/2 clue you gave the stinker I was thinking more like 1/8
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-08-10 21:29:21)
Josh, Razzel was telling habs stink he's almost as big an idiot as you. The stinker at least had 1/2 a clue.
johnny Thunder (Posted 2008-08-10 21:25:32)
This coming a week after THN had an article about why Captain Mats isn't HHOF material. Come on now, we all know its the dog days of summer, draft and FA season is over and done with, but lets not just spew out just anything here just for the sake of inking up pages. Guy had a great career, but he's far from the first in line of overlooked players.
Josh (Posted 2008-08-10 21:00:35)
Hey Razzel, could you remove your head from your butt, I couldn't quite get all that. Did you say Habs stink. First off nice comment, Habs finish 1st in east and win Conferance and they suck. Must be a leaf fan. Secondly, is that your argument for Carbo not getting in? He should be in the HHOF. The best defensive forward in the last 20 years to play the game, he should be in there. Has three cups and many brused shins to count towards a nomination.
Jason (Posted 2008-08-10 20:01:33)
Yes while we're talking defense, would someone please consider Kevin Lowe for the Hall worthy defender he was?
Razzel-Dazzel (Posted 2008-08-10 18:20:26)
This old guy I use to work with once told me * sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut and appear to be a idot than to open you mouth and prove it * You just proved it habs stink! nuff said!!!
Habs4life (Posted 2008-08-10 18:09:07)
habs stink, great argument! you should write for the hockey news! with your intelligence and insight you've put everyone else's comments to shame! ( by the way this is sarcasm, another big word you probably don't understand ) If you don't have anything with a hint intelligence to say, why say it at all? sure, people are intitled to there own opinion but most people have some sort of grounds ( along with the brains ) to base there opinion on besides *carbo stinks*. If you feel carbo doesn't deserve to be in the HOF and it really upsets you that much than tell us why. And next time something more original than * carbo stinks *
habs stink (Posted 2008-08-10 17:26:46)
Carbo stinks. He does not deserve the Hall Of Fame. Even his own players dont like him.
Brian Kemp (Posted 2008-08-10 15:30:34)
danny, do you mean defensive forward? Carbonneau wasn't a defenseman, offensive or otherwise. I've been wondering for a while if Carbo was ever going to get in. Hopefully he will, it seems like he deserves it.
danny (Posted 2008-08-10 15:16:12)
one of the best players in the 80's and 90's in my book. he wasn't no gretzky or robitaille though. he'll get there. a guy that played the game like that it just takes a little time. i have learned that it always takes time for people that didn't really get the stats but played there hearts out every game defensivly on the offensive side of the puck. he'll be there soon, no doubt in my mind. another name comes to mind about offensive defensman that should make it and that's geoff courtnall. he produced around the same numbers as carboneau and was a great offensive defensman. is he in yet? nope. it will take time but i believe they both will be in there.
Habs4life (Posted 2008-08-10 14:45:28)
great article, players like carbo who only care about the good of the team and not showing up on the score sheet don't get the credit they deserve. they often become the most important players in the playoffs, sometimes even more so then the top point getters from the regular season.
James Sheehy (Posted 2008-08-10 14:17:21)
This was one of the better articles I've read in months
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-08-10 13:55:28)
Carbo should be in. For the same reasons, so should super-pest Esa Tikkanen. Both great shadow/shutdown men. Just as important to a winning team as the goal scorers. Made life a lot easier for his D & goalies too.
Jamie P (Posted 2008-08-10 13:26:09)
You gotta love Bob Gainey ... he's fashioned this team to his image with the likes of people like Carbonneau.
Intelligent, quick-witted, conscious, aware, adaptable, fierce, persistant and relentless ... all attributes synonymous with both these mens names.
Unsung heroes, the kind that make a difference.
Notice how Gainey has done this with staff AND players. Just a winning attitude down the line.
The glory days arent too far away. In Bob we trust.
Go Habs Go !
el duderino (Posted 2008-08-10 13:23:09)
he should def be in as a player but still has to prove himself as a hhf worthy coach. the canadians were not spectacular last season. their 1st place finish was only due tothe fact that they dominated the bruins in all 8 games. if that series would have been split 4-4 the bruins would have won the conference and the canadians would have been in the 8th seed. i give him credit for taking a blist team on paper and making them work hard on the offense as well oas on the defence, but he hasnt proved his comparability to bowman (bowman is a true hhf coach).
Steve Cowen (Posted 2008-08-10 13:05:57)
As a die hard Hab Fan that bleeds blue white and red, five cups, only in me dreams. At least one in the next five years is for sure , as young MR Price will lead us back to the prommised land. As for Carbo, sooner or later the nomination commitee will remove there heads from their rear ends and realize what a true superstar he truly was/is. He will be in as a player and coach for taking the Habs back to dominance .
el duderino (Posted 2008-08-10 12:07:48)
who runs the hhf committee? wouldn`t it make sense for players to be nominated (by other prominent nhlers) once they are eligible for hhf induction?
Bai Jiansi (Posted 2008-08-10 11:58:05)
And played defensive center during the greatest offensive era of the NHL, against fellow centers Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Savard, Hawerchuk, Stastny, Francis, to mention a few. Great in face-offs, very intelligent player, class act. Was playing with heart and passion. And a great name to shout: "Carbo! Carbo! Carbo".
el duderino (Posted 2008-08-10 11:50:41)
5 consecutive cupsÉ come on man, lets be serious. i hope you dont believe that thats possible.
Seb (Posted 2008-08-10 11:46:50)
I dont know if Carbonneau will bring a Stanley Cup to Montreal but he certainly has been one of the best coaches of the last 3 years. I hope his defensive prowess will be recognized one day cause without him, Montreal would not have been the powerhouse they were 10-15 years ago. Look at Tampa Bay...all offense...horrible defese...no playoffs. Defense wins championships.
Barrows (Posted 2008-08-10 11:42:11)
Good article. I concur, it's time to give Guy the consideration he deserves.
Pimp Daddy Pimpstrong (Posted 2008-08-10 11:11:36)
The Hall is just waiting for the inevitable, that being Carbonneau coaching the Habs back to absolute dominance and another period of annually wreaking havoc on the NHL. When Carbs brings five consecutive Cups to Montreal - which he will, very soon - he'll get in the Hall!!
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