The Straight Edge: Enforcers are alive and well
Dan Carcillo and Rick Rypien square off in a battle of fisticuffs. (Photo by Jeff Vinnick/NHLI via Getty Images)
Ryan Kennedy
2008-08-08 13:13:39
James DeLory knows what has got him this far in his hockey career.
At 6-foot-5, 225 pounds, the recently graduated Oshawa Generals defenseman was known as one of the toughest customers in the Ontario League, dropping the gloves and physically intimidating the other team whenever necessary.
“I do end up attracting attention,” DeLory said understatedly.
According to hockeyfights.com, DeLory peaked with 14 major bouts in 2006-07. But you have to wonder if the reason he only fought 10 times last year is because no one wanted to take him on.
Far from retreating from the game, the enforcer – and his little brother, the scrappy agitator – is still a part of hockey and is in no way leaving any time soon.
The Oshawa bruiser’s junior career is finished, but his life as a hired gun has just begun. While DeLory was drafted by San Jose, the Sharks couldn’t find a place for him in the organization, so he signed with Florida this summer. Rochester, the Panthers’ American League affiliate, was in need of an enforcer and DeLory hopes to fit the bill.
“I’ve talked to a lot of the top fighters in the OHL,” DeLory noted. “And we know we’re going to have to play with that edge in order to be successful at the next level.”
Along with DeLory, recent draftees such as first-rounders Kyle Beach and Colten Teubert have been known to throw down when called upon and the later rounds of the 2008 NHL draft were spattered with members of the 200-plus PIM club.
Daniel Carcillo, Jared Boll and Zach Stortini are just a few tough guys who made names for themselves in the NHL last season and the war machine ain’t stopping anytime soon.
And do you know why?
Because the NHL endorses fighting.
Yup, you heard me, folks. And I have no problem with that. How does the league endorse fighting? It’s simple: The NHL tacitly approves of fisticuffs because players are not suspended or fined for them. Sure, you can get suspended or fined for fighting in the last five minutes of a game if you’ve been red-flagged as a “goon,” but that’s a pretty simple rule to get around: Send your message at the six-minute mark. It’s not rocket science.
While fans of other sports can only hope something bad happens to hate-him-unless-he-plays-for-you guys like Terrell Owens or Alex Rodriguez, hockey has made it known since its inception that if you’re a jerk, you’re going to get rocked in the mouth sooner or later. Your pretty little teeth are going to bounce off the ice and you’ll think twice about spearing or butt-ending one of our boys again.
Repulsive? Venomous? I don’t know. It’s certainly cathartic every once in a while and there’s a big difference between law and justice.
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When Dale Hunter ran Pierre Turgeon in the 1993 playoffs, the long suspension would have felt a little hollow had Steve Thomas and Benoit Hogue not jumped the Washington Capitals scoundrel in retaliation. Is a scenario where Hunter crumples Turgeon into the boards from behind then skates away smugly really more palatable than the reality, when a linesman had to tear him from a frothing mob of Islanders?
Not that you can expect to see boxers on ice getting a lot of skating time these days. Philadelphia’s Riley Cote played 70 games last year, but averaged just 4:16 of ice time. Similarly, Anaheim enforcer George Parros’ shifts worked out to 5:56 of ice time a game. Even Boll, who is more of an agitator, played just 8:00 a game.
Which is why the smart youngsters are serious about being more complete hockey players.
“I look at Chris Pronger and the way he moves for a big man,” DeLory said. “He plays with an edge and is not necessarily dropping the gloves all the time. I’m working on getting quicker and more agile. With the clutching and grabbing gone, you need to be able to catch up to those forwards when they get the puck.”
Having said that, DeLory doesn’t want to forsake the fists that have opened doors for him. With his size, he probably still would have ended up in the OHL, but the mettle he displayed with the York Simcoe Express made him Oshawa’s first round pick in 2004.
“I did have a couple fights in my draft year, trying to get noticed,” he said. “It’s gotten me where I am today. It worked for me.”
And fighting will continue to help kids land contracts, because it has been ingrained in hockey and teams often covet the skill. Even though the NHL doesn’t promote this part of the game, the league knows it wouldn’t be able to banish it without a backlash.
Repulsive? Venomous? Reality.
Ryan Kennedy is a writer and copy editor for The Hockey News magazine, the co-author of the book Hockey's Young Guns and a regular contributor to THN.com. His blog appears Wednesdays, his column - The Straight Edge - every second Friday, and his feature, The Hot List appears Tuesdays.
For more great profiles, news and views from the world of hockey, Subscribe to The Hockey News magazine.
Tyler Thompson (Posted 2008-09-02 13:42:43)
Probert...Probert...probert??? I remember Wendel Clarke beating him like a rented mule yrs ago. So i dunno about the best ever..how about Behn Wilson? Underrated big time.
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-08-30 18:27:54)
I really enjoyed a Flyers/Leafs game a few years back. Brashear had the Howe hat trick. Scored, had an assist and punched out Domi. Decisively!
R Costa (Posted 2008-08-30 08:00:48)
Sir Richard Greenop drafted by Chicago went with Delory twice last year. Two very quality scraps between 2 very respectable goons. Also watch out for Antony Peluso draft by St. Louis on of the OHL's premier heavyweights.
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-08-29 10:30:49)
Probert's the greatest ever. And he could play a bit too. Too bad about all the off ice problems.Brashear's a fake. Not that I'd want anything to do with him.
DaveS (Posted 2008-08-28 13:39:40)
thumbs up "whatsthatsmel";
BOBBY PROBERT , THE GRAND CHAMP!
Bob Miller (Posted 2008-08-27 16:39:58)
Hey--wanted to ask if you've read the book, Enforcer, about a pro hockey fighter? I don't suppose the NHL was too enthused about the topic, but I thought it was pretty good.
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-08-18 14:09:19)
Jeff, I love a good hockey fight as much as the next guy(obviously, look who my team is) but I think your attitude towards the Boogey man is all wrong. So you're saying if someone hits a star player then the coach should send out his biggest,toughest,least talented player to go after the hitter? Isn't hitting supposed to be part of the game?I love it when two players are competing, tempers run short, and the gloves come off. I hate it when some lunk head who plays 5 minutes a night gets to hammer on some player who threw a clean hit.Yes, I know, Philly has plenty of these types of players, I still don't like it.
Jeff (Posted 2008-08-17 16:31:14)
Yes, I was hoping there would be a mention of Derek Boogard. I recall watching jack Carlso, Willie Plett, the feisty yet ineffective duo of Broten & Ciccarelli, Basil McRae and others who wore the North Star.
But none of them brought what Derek brings. When a skilled Wild player like Gaborik is hit, the 'BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO' chanting begins and goes on until Lemaire knods. Derek, at 6'7" and 270 lbs, then steps over the boards and with a smile, he drops people with one punch. With those who fight back, they soon realize they are in a serious fight.
Boogard is the man.
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-08-16 21:04:55)
Krivo Krasov-all the players on the Canucks you mentioned are legit, except when have you ever seen the twins do anything remotely illegal? I can't recall ever seeing one of them come close to being angry.
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-08-16 21:00:53)
Why do's it suck to be a fan who hates Tootoo? What am I missing out on? A little cheap shot artist who is tougher than me? I'll get over it.
4thline (Posted 2008-08-16 04:05:04)
Tootoo is 5'9" and you have to remember the guys he fights are usually bigger, heavier and he does pretty well. He generally has anywhere from 3-6 inches taller and 10-25lbs heavier opponents that he takes on. Sucks to be you fans that hate him. You have to give him credit as he may be pound-for-pound a tough SOB. You win some and lose some. He shows up and doesn't need anyone to stand up for him. I would love to see any of you take him on after you make your comments to his face. Truth hurts, so you guys can be forgiven for your smugness and your sit behind your computer trash talking.
Travis K (Posted 2008-08-16 02:09:55)
This article is great and so true. It's to bad that you didn't mention the fact that the boogard brothers have a camp in saskatchewan teaching young kids how to fight properly. Its weird but it does make it alot safer and as a result more fun. I love fighting in hockey and i think it should and will stay for the rest of the leagues days. Best agitator is sean avery or jarkko ruutu and best fighter is georges laraque or george parros
whatsthatsmell (Posted 2008-08-15 18:57:06)
quick trivia question... how many other goals did Donald Brashear score? His main job really is beating people up. Put me on ice surrounded by Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Nylander, and Federov and I could probably score the odd miracle goal here and there too.
Tim (Posted 2008-08-15 16:02:07)
Quick trivia question.....Who scored the first goal of the Washington/Philthy playoff series?
Donald Brashear He does more than beat people up.
Krivo Krasov (Posted 2008-08-14 11:55:54)
Uh Red Herring, you suggest Ruutu and Tootoo are the main cheap shot artists, and yet you root for the Canucks. Burrows, Kesler, and the Sedin Sisters aren't exactly "by the rulebook" players. Infact, I hate Alexander Burrows more than I hate Tootoo. Most of that Canucks team I can't stand with the exception of Luongo, and when Linden was around.
A.K. (Posted 2008-08-14 06:18:51)
flyerfan> maybe you felt smart, thinking you were pointing that out but no, sorry, you're not. all you did was misread my post like a moron. the word i was keying on from your post was "consider" - you're accusing people of considering themselves cartoon characters cause they use that name on a freaking message board? give me a break. do us all a favour and stay of these boards in the future. no one's interested in your nonsense and attempts to be "clever".
whatsthatsmell (Posted 2008-08-13 20:43:18)
I miss John Kordic, Mike Peluso, The Grim Reaper, and Bobbly Probert.
Brian Kemp (Posted 2008-08-12 17:11:47)
Jody, that's cool, but we're all hockey fans here. For my money, I wouldn't want Scott Parker on my team. He's one dimensional, and I like guys who can do more than "enforce". I like Brashear, always thought he was unfairly labeled a goon. I haven't seen much of Boll to have an opinion on him. I'll have to take you word on that one.
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-08-12 16:08:00)
Peter, Hollweg had a habit of checking from behind and sending people head first into the boards. That'll get the refs against you. Maybe in TO, since the refs seem to favor them, he'll get more leeway. Downie got treated worse. Mainly because his rep followed him from the OHL.
Peter Spadotto (Posted 2008-08-12 14:40:21)
All I can say is that, in NY, there's one person who definitely did not get any respect for being an "enforcer" and that was Ryan Hollweg. The fans loved him, and rightly so (aside for his inability to score a friggin' goal...but, that was a third of the team, anyway), but the refs wouldn't ever give him the benefit of the doubt, and for a guy who was a better hitter than he was a scorer, the refs only served to marginalize his game, and neuter his effectiveness. I mean christ, the guy got chopped in the face with a stick...2 inches either way and his career or his life would have been over (2 inches down...his throat would have been crushed, 2 inches higher, we're talking orbital bone), yet the refs won't let the guy make a living. It's a shame.
Big, big balls (Posted 2008-08-12 14:02:05)
Let there be fighting in all work environments. Let the little guys learn the values of "only the strong survive" and I think the world would be a much better place. Respect would be a two way street again without the little guys being protected by the "I'll sue you" motto.
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-08-12 13:41:18)
No A.K., Homer Simpson isn't real. That's a cartoon you're watching. Hate to break it to you.
A.K. (Posted 2008-08-12 02:49:09)
Flyerfan> "consider themselves cartoon characters"? riiiiiight. get a life.
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-08-11 20:40:36)
Winghater makes a good argument for enforcers. Boll out, players take liberties. I agree they should be good enough players to take a regular shift. I would like to point out that you can be sued for using the names of other living people and misrepresenting their opinion in posts. Bad enough that many of you consider yourself cartoon characters.
Jody Shelley (Posted 2008-08-11 16:02:35)
Brian... that wasn't meant for you. And I agree about the goons and needing to have an enforcer who can take shifts. And I don't like boogard and worrell and fedoruk either. But some people don't realize the value of an enforcer. I'm actually glad they have a more meaningful title like enforcer instead of being labeled as goons. Players like Jared Boll, Scott Parker and even Donald Brasher definitely play a major role on the ice.
Brian Kemp (Posted 2008-08-11 14:47:25)
Fighting is fine, Jody Shelley. It's the designated goon, the guy with no real value to his team, other than "sending a message", that is a waste of a roster spot. Give me Probert, Kocur and McCarty any day of the week, but you can keep your Boogards, Fedoruks and Worells. If they can't take a regular shift, they aren't worth the money they're getting paid. Yeah, we know, none of us have ever played a real sport like you. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some ballet to watch...
Jody Shelley (Posted 2008-08-11 12:43:09)
Fighting first of all is the first real form of competition between men. Back in the day when cavemen had disagreements i doubt they played paper, rock, scissors. For all you "non fighting" advocates, isn't MMA one of the fastest growing sports in the US? I believe so.... So I don't buy the argument that hockey isn't mainstream cause it needs cleaned up. Maybe its because the players are coming from around the world and aren't as "American" or well know as our American players in other sports. You guys must have never played a physical sport and never experienced cheap shots, or frustrations that come along with physical play. If you don't like it go watch ballet. Turds.....
Winghater (Posted 2008-08-11 12:36:52)
Tootoo blows. I saw him going after non-fighters when Columbus played Nashville one game because Jared Boll was out of the line-up. The next time they played, Tootoo got his rear-end handed to him by Boll. It was great.
Brian Kemp (Posted 2008-08-11 12:09:03)
Section325L, Tootoo is over-rated, and there is no way I want that one-dimensional guy on my team. He hits, but doesn't do enough of anything else. Also, he's cheap, and I don't just mean his salary. You can keep him, thanks. Weber, him I like, but Tootoo, I'll pass.
Brian Kemp (Posted 2008-08-11 10:47:14)
Curtis, fighting has nothing to do with why hockey isn't more popular. If that were true, MMA wouldn't be the fast rising sport that it is (hate that crap, but that's just me.) Hockey isn't popular because people are told ad nauseum that hockey isn't popular. It's a Jedi mind trick here in the States, ESPN tells the masses that they shouldn't like hockey because their friends don't like hockey, and too many people buy it. The traditional markets are strong, and over time, the newer markets can become strong, but only if the NHL figures out a way to get a buzz going around it again, like in the 80's with Gretzky in LA, or Messier and the Rangers winning in '94. To say it's fighting is wrong. It just takes time to overcome the programming to get people to try it. Once they do, many learn to appreciate what hockey has to offer.
Picard (Posted 2008-08-11 09:59:21)
Figure skating DOES NOT have better ratings than hockey, except maybe in San Francisco, Double Sowcow. And The Blizz - you want statistical evidence for allowing enforcers? How about: 80 games playes, 92 goals, 120 assists for 212 points? Or 80 games played, 52 goals, 163 assists for 215? Those are Wayne Gretzky's two biggest seasons, and they wouldn't have been what they were without Dave Semenko making sure he stayed safe and healthy. The '80s were THE era for goals and high scoring, and they were also the prime era for enforcers. Am I the only one who thinks its not just a coincidence?
Section325L (Posted 2008-08-11 08:37:26)
Haha.......nice to see all the Tootoo love! He is actually a very good player when not starting any crap on the ice. Him and Weber have 2 of the best slap shots on the team. Say what you want about him....you wish he was on your team.
red herring (Posted 2008-08-11 03:02:23)
tootoo(like the ballarina outfit) is a cheap shot artist NOT a fighter or someone who brings a lot of good to a club.There are too many players[to list] in the league who are players(not like tootoo and rutuu) who grind and play for their team every night, no matter what it takes.These guys are needed on every team every night. GO Canucks/Bruins Go
Double Sowcow (Posted 2008-08-11 00:25:48)
Hockey is a lot like figure skating without fighting. Judges make subjective calls in figure skating. In hockey refs do the same. They call penalties when they want, not when they happen. Maybe if they called a penalty when it happened there would be less cheap shots and hence less need for goons. btw figure skating has higher ratings than hockey
T.Roy (Posted 2008-08-10 23:56:24)
John O, I can't wait to see the Stars play next season so I can see Avery, Ott, and Morrow get the snot kicked out of them.
Curtis (Posted 2008-08-10 21:41:44)
I agree with everything said. And I would add, this is the major reason why hockey ranks below all the other major sports in attendance, revenue and interest. And it is the major reason why it is so difficult for those of us in small markets to generate enough interest in the sport to get leagues going. So, the question remains one of how much does the NHL REALLY want to expand the sport to those who may be interested in the sport but don't watch because of the fighting?
Loves the fights in hockey (Posted 2008-08-10 21:40:26)
Personally, I love the fights in hockey. Every team needs an enforcer (it keeps the opposing team honest), just as every team needs a superstar. If they took the fighting out of hockey, it would just be figure skating with an inanimate object on the ice. I haven't witnessed much fighting in soccer? The only blow being dealt that I can recall was the infamous flying headbutt by Z.Z. Baseball fights are hilarious(they need to learn how to throw a punch), and basketball players 'fights' are funny as well. A lot of shoving and girly punches thrown. But hockey, hockey has Enforcers or pests. Chucking knuckles is all part of the game. My favourite enforcers are Laraque, Chara and Carcillo. Chara has broken orbital bones and cheek bones and jaws. Laraque looks like a prize fighter out there. And Carcillo doesn't back down from no one. He throws punches like a jackhammer (just as fast and just as effective). Fighting will always be in hockey. Whether it be on the ice or in the stands.
sigma0 (Posted 2008-08-10 14:10:34)
Being German and thus naturally a big soccer fan I quickly turned to hockey when I came to the US. Speed, skill, hits it's an awesome game.
I've played soccer myself and can tell out of experience that having no enforcers is a major problem for skilled soccer players. You basically get a cheap shot every time you have the ball (yes, achilles heals can only take that much kicking before they give up). Having enforcers and some physical punishment for cheap shooting would greatly add to the game.
I enjoy every part of hockey, and btw. Jody Shelley practices very hard to become a better player, he even scored a goal last season...although I agree that that's not why he's in the roster.
Go Sharks!
T.Roy (Posted 2008-08-10 01:14:11)
Watch a Red Wings game on Fox Detroit if you get the chance if you happen to be here when a game is going on. Mickey Redmond shares the play by play. If a fight breaks out he will most always say their is not a person sitting down. He himself was not a big fighter, but reminds us all that it is part of the game and always was. He will also tell fans how intent to injury (such as the Burtuzi,Brashear, ect. incidents) are worth big fines and suspensions. Enforcers and clean fights will never go away. Bring it on Avery, you punk.
Habs4life (Posted 2008-08-09 16:19:35)
I totally agree with Brian and would just like to address knownothings(knowitall, yeah right !) comment on international hockey being better than the NHL because it doesn't allow fighting, I agree international hockey is a great display of hockey skill but it is because you take the best players from 30 teams and put them on 6 - 8 teams not because of fighting
Brian Kemp (Posted 2008-08-09 14:59:45)
Knowitall, I rarely say this, but I think you got your name wrong. There were goons on every team in the 80's when there were 9 less teams. The dilution of the talent pool has nothing to do with goons' continued presence on rosters. I agree, a penalty should be a penalty no matter who is winning, what the score is or how late in the game it is.
Colin Feeney (Posted 2008-08-09 14:56:03)
Great story! I'm not a fight fan per se, but with that said, I'd rather see two guys drop 'em and go rather than see a lot of stickwork, where someone could really get hurt. I've been working in amateur hockey in St. Louis for 25 years, and I've seen lots of that when fighting was banned. Botom line: for better or worse, fighting and enforcers have always been part of the game, and it's not going away anytime soon. I may not necessarily like it, but I do accept it.
Tommy P (Posted 2008-08-09 14:43:10)
I have always enjoyed seeing two players go at it on the ice. It really stirs up the fans and makes the game more physical. I do think that there should be less of it however because at times it begins to become ridiculous see two j-offs trying to punch each other for the umpteenth time. It certainly gives us great memories though. Check out on youtube the Chris Osgood vs. Patrick Roy fight. Classic hardnosed hockey. keep the fights but limit them
Knowitall (Posted 2008-08-09 13:03:42)
Fighting is dated and should not be in hockey. Rules should evolve and should reflect the sign of the times like in football. If one watches international hockey where fighting is not allowed, one could see superior hockey on display. Firstly, the problem with the NHL is that the player pool is so diluted that the only way to fill rosters of the way too many teams is to include goons who have little or no skill. And secondly, refs need to enforce rules all the time. A penalty in the first period should be a penalty in the third period. That way the instigation rule is negated.
Willing (Posted 2008-08-09 12:23:51)
Dave Semenko was a stone on skates but with hard work and training he was able to contribute some to the Oilers in the 80 s I seem to remember a artical in the early 80 s about how useless he was with his gloves on and Sather said just wait and see with in a few years he could be trusted to take a regular shift this in its self was intimidating for the oposition so most of these guys can be helpful in other ways if they train acordingly!
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-08-09 12:17:42)
I agree with all you Tootoo bashers. All he's good for is running around waiting for his chance to take off someone's head. Look at the look of bewilderment on his face when the puck comes within 10 feet of him. People bash Steve Downey all the time ( most of it deserved) but Tootoo is like Downey without any puck skills.
Edog (Posted 2008-08-09 11:02:30)
If they got rid of the instigator penalty, a lot of the cheap shots would disappear.....the Code would be honored....
Hockey Snob (Posted 2008-08-09 10:48:14)
As long as the cheap shots are allowed, the Enforcer role will live and have a place in hockey. When refs look the other way to keep the game close instead of making the legitimate call, ditto. Sorry, its an unpopular thing to question the refs, but their job is to make the calls they see, when they don't, it gets ugly. ie: 2008 Stanley Cup finals, did no one see Mr. Roberts punch Mr. Franzen in the head and skate away???? Sad when 2 refs are staring at the play and no one makes the call, check the replay. Ignore that question and the Enforcer lives on!
John O (Posted 2008-08-09 07:23:41)
I can't wait to watch the Stars next year with Ott, Avery, and Morrow. Not as big as some, but definitely enough to get under your skin on every shift. =)
mark marcus (Posted 2008-08-09 04:07:04)
lets not forget how freakin hard it is to fight on ice!
Humberto Yanez (Posted 2008-08-09 03:21:19)
Daniel Carcillo isnt really an enforcer, hes more of a darcy tucker type of player in his early years (ie now) but hes awesome none the less, the coyotes get more cheers when he steps on the ice or when peter mueller does something with the puck
Jamie (Posted 2008-08-08 23:18:34)
Excellent article. I'm English and one of the things that first brought hockey to my attention was the fact that it involved big hits and fights, i went on to discover that it was the greatest game in the world. I agree with Blizz that having enforcers doesn't stop cheap shots on key players but hockey is a team sport and guys aren't going to watch their friends get hammered and think a suspension is full justice. And show me a contact sport in the world where a fight has never brkoken out when someone has injured a player on the other team. I enjoy fights and I'd rather see two guys for whom fighting is part of their game square off to stick up for their teams than a melee with guys with sticks and blades on their feet. Enforcers are part of the game and part of what makes hockey such a complete sport.
Hammer Head (Posted 2008-08-08 23:07:13)
They fight in other sports... it just looks ridiculous and has no bearing on the game's outcome usually. A fight in hockey can play a role in changing the outcome. Plus you can't expect guys to be lay each other into the boards shift after shift and not get pissed enough to want to go a round. That is what makes hockey the best sport... anyone can hit anyone. Can a batter throw a pitch at a pitcher's head? No... but every once in a while he gets PO'd enough to go and try girlie slap fighting one. In B-ball someone takes an elbow every once in a while that will PO him off enough that he too will have a girlie slap fight with someone as well.
Hockey rules, and fighting is part of the reason why.
Seb (Posted 2008-08-08 19:34:58)
Boogaard is fun to watch, has no hockey sense whatsoever but still entertaining to see how he can level a guy with one punch! Guys like Laraque, Brashear, Carcillo or Neil are there to scare the other team. When u got guys like that on ur team the other players feel 3 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier cause they feel someone is there to protect them if they get hit. When u hit Crosby...and Laraque shows up in ur face the next shift telling u to stay away from him or else...u stay away from him! But to be truly useful enforcers gotta know how to play hockey and theres only a handful of guys able to do both...
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-08-08 19:34:56)
If all players were equally talented there'd be no need for enforcers. With over 600 players in the league, there is a need for players that keep cheap shot artists honest knowing there could be retribution. Greats like Richard, Howe & even Orr would look after themselves. Now, with the smaller players coming into the league again with all teams still having the huge guys, there's a need until all players make the league on talent alone. Don't forget that most of the so called goons were good enough in junior to score a fair number of points. Otherwise, teams would draft UFs and teach them to skate.
The Blizz (Posted 2008-08-08 18:35:46)
I don't mind fighting (it's great entertainment), but what I do mind is wasting a roster spot for a player who is on your team based on a dubious premise. The basic assumption is that people don't take cheap shots at superstars because you have a tough guy on your team to protect them. The problem with this argument is that George Laraque didn't stop Mike Richards from laying out Evgeni Malkin in the playoffs. Does anyone really think Brad Stuart would have thought twice about giving Sidney Crosby a crushing blow in Game 6 of the Cup Finals if George Laraque had been dressed for that game? Put simply, there's simply no statistical or anecdotal evidence to suggest that enforcers actually keep superstars from getting hit. Hits like the one that Dale Hunter made against Pierre Turgeon and that Bertuzzi made against Moore are acts of irrational violence, which means that even the prospect of being suspended for an entire season or career couldn't stop them... as if having a cement head on your bench could.
There is an argument to be made for permitting fighting, but let's not that bleed into the irrational and suggest that there is any justification for wasting a spot on an "intimidator".
Mike (Posted 2008-08-08 17:50:08)
You could put as many enforcers on the team as you want. It wouldn't make a difference. When Iggy gets mad, fights. Regarless. It's awesome, but those $7m fists .. Scary
Braden (Posted 2008-08-08 17:31:40)
Fighting definitley has a place in the game. And I don't agree with anyone who says that it makes hockey look disgraceful compared to other team sports. Soccer has it's stupid riots when the fans go nuts and fight, turn over cars, smash things and start fires. Yet nobody seems to care about that. Although it does add something interesting to the snorefest that is major league soccer. I'll never understand how it has become one of the most popular sports in the world.
fleetwood94 (Posted 2008-08-08 17:29:42)
Great article...it's nice to see tough guys get their props...but the best tough guys are/were the ones who could "pot the odd goal" as well. I remember Joey Kocur one year scored close to 20 goals and had 370-something PIMs. As for the Pens, letting Laracque go was a dunce move-Eric Godard isn't in his class by far-same with Columbus and Jody Shelley. The top scorers need proven protection-not a minor-pro "legend" who turtles whenever the Brashears and Laracques come calling!!!
Web (Posted 2008-08-08 17:21:08)
Enforcers and fighters are part of the game only if you're referring to North American professional and junior hockey.Outside of the martial arts sports, these leagues are the only ones of any team sport, not only hockey, that allows fighting. Fans don't flock to soccer, basketball, baseball, etc, to see fighting.For every Chris Neil who can actually play the game, there are the Jody Shelleys and Riley Cotes of the world who would never see the ice if not for their fists and those who tangle with them.
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-08-08 16:54:17)
Good, true article. Even most of the comments so far make sense. FYI john 7oakes, Brashear whipped Domi's butt almost every time they fought. Sometimes, adding insult, he even scored shortly thereafter. Domi was so over-rated. Now Probert, Fergie Sr., etal., they were fighters & players that knew their way around the rink. There were also very good players like Robinson that seldom had to fight because they excelled at that too.
fred (Posted 2008-08-08 16:45:45)
PROBERT FOR PRESIDENT....realisticly i would love to see him in the wings management...now that bowman's gone(good luck bowman by the way)
fred (Posted 2008-08-08 16:42:59)
nice krivo....tootoo's a tool...and whatever became of sergei krivokrasov?
Andrew (Posted 2008-08-08 16:37:30)
Aaron Downey is a good enforcer Brian Mcgrattan Daniel Carcillo George Parros Shawn Thornton etc... totoo sucks
Krivo Krasov (Posted 2008-08-08 15:59:26)
Uh, for the moron with the Jordin Tootoo comment, the next time he fights someone, notice how he resembles a large shelled animal- the turtle. Remember when James Wisniewski beat the hell out of him on New Years' Day? Tootoo is a nothing.
snowman (Posted 2008-08-08 15:55:26)
Alex in AZ makes some good points. If you don't want to watch the enforcement portion of the game go have your cup of tea and turn on the figure skating. If the fans had any hockey playing experience they would realize the players appreciate the enforcer’s presence to keep the game honestng. If the fans had any hockey playing experience they would realize the players appreciate the enforcers presence to keep the game honest. Best enforcers, Tony Twist and Probert.
Nikolaj Jensen (Posted 2008-08-08 15:52:13)
This is why Jarome Iginla is SO good, he is one of the top players in the league and he can throw some cruel and unusual punishment at anyone who gives him a funny look.
The league needs more Bob Proberts and fewer Derek Boogards, people who can play and shake it up are so valuable in todays league compared to the big shaved gorillas who can barely skate.
john 7oaks (Posted 2008-08-08 15:26:17)
all i gotta say is tony twist..him or tie domi toughest guys i have ever seen play..then of course probert, grimson..i would love to see brasher get destroyed by one of these heavyweights..
James Finney (Posted 2008-08-08 15:13:24)
Fighting is and always should be a part of the game. Joey - they square off like that because they don't want to go in recklessly and get themselves knocked out. Just about all of the best fights ever started in the way you mentioned. Alex - I agree. Look at a lot of other major sports and growing sports - Americans love the violence. Americans love hits in football, love the crashes in NASCAR (which is a terrible sport, but still), and many love MMA fighting - why wouldn't they watch hockey for the fights? Very good article though, I'm glad someone is finally saying that its a good thing.
jan (Posted 2008-08-08 14:59:49)
The enforcers and the agitators will always be a part of hockey. I'd love to see longer suspensions for the repeat "cheap shot" guys. (DeLory, if the Panthers send you to Rochester, bring your fists, but bring some skills as well. You won't play too many minutes a game in the NHL if you are just an enforcer -- improve your skills and you might get more ice time as well. Looking forward to watching you play)
Section325L (Posted 2008-08-08 14:20:28)
Jordin Tootoo kicks all of their a$$es! The above list is nothing more than a bunch of flabby little girly men.
Joey (Posted 2008-08-08 14:08:00)
I agree fighting is part of the game and has a place in the league. What I am getting tired of is the dancing at center ice. If your gonna fight then fight. No more of that dancing, feeling out your opponent. If they drop the gloves and haven't mixed it up in 2 seconds then it should be a delay of game.
Ryan Thiessen (Posted 2008-08-08 13:52:52)
Good to see an article that actually says out loud what we all know, Fighting is in the game, is an important part of the game, and should stay in the game. I say bring back the goon and get rid of all these cheep shot artists the old fashioned way!
Alex in AZ (Posted 2008-08-08 13:50:44)
The argument that the NHL would be more popular to the mainstream without fighting is tiresome and ignorant if you consider the ever-growing popularity of cage fighting. I would much rather see a player have to worry about having to drop the gloves with an enforcer AND a suspension for a cheap shot than just the suspension. It makes for a more effective deterrence, it can change the whole direction of a game, and it's exciting for the fans. In fact, it's another way to convert new fans that will be excited about the fights at first and then quickly recognize the other great aspects of the game. That's not to say however that the league couldn't do a better job with suspensions - they should be longer for repeat offenders than they currently are.
HabFan (Posted 2008-08-08 13:34:31)
Great article as usual.
Picard (Posted 2008-08-08 13:32:35)
Solid article. Its nice to see a little good press go to some of the hardest workers in the league for once. Yeah, they may not get the highlight reel goals, or play 20 minutes a game, but these kinds of guys have a very clear role in the league, and they are valuable to every team. Teams like Pittsburgh need guys like Laraques to protect their skilled stars (who've they go to replace him, by the way?) and save them from getting run like what happened to Turgeon. Hunter doesn't do that if heknows he has to answer to Chris Simon or Bob Probert, I betcha. On top of that, certain teams need these guys to protect their stars from THEMSELVES. You think the Flames like seeing Iggy drop the gloves and risk breaking his hands? Or Tampa with Lecavalier? You bring in guys like this to stop guys like that from fighting. And, as a nice side bonus, the goons often end up being fan favourites, helping to seel tickets and merchandise. Leave the frigging game alone - its been a good one for a century or so, why change it because it MIGHT be more popular if we do? Fighting has a very important place in this sport, and always should. Bleeding hearts who don't like to see them need to toughen up a bit...this is a real sport, not the video games you're playing in the dark
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