okay, what does a stanley cup mean? it doesn't make you any better of a player, and listen here bub, Darryl Sittler, a layer of Sundin's skill, didn't win any personal hardware either. if you're the Toronto boy, then you're a BIG disgrace

I think Sundin had his best days in the Swedish national team. Check out these awards: Named to the World Championships All-Star Team in 1992 and 2003. World Championships' Best Forward in 1992. Named to the Canada Cup All-Star Team in 1991. Named to the World Cup of Hockey All-Star Team in 1996. Named to the Olympic Tournament All-Star Team in 2002. Ofcourse this has nothing to do with HOF, but it's the main reason why he's so popular in Sweden.

I tend to think that there may be something to the "Mats is better than his numbers" argument so I did some digging for context. This is not meant to infer that he should be a first ballot selection. Just want to point out that he has almost always been the best player on almost any team he's played on. His first and second seasons he is eclipsed by Joe Sakic (playing in his 3rd and 4th seasons) but still comes second on the Nords. Year 3, he scores 1 less goal and 9 more points than Joe Sakic. Year 4, 4 more goals, 7 less points than Sakic. Year 5, No longer with Sakic, he puts up 47 points in 47 games next closest leaf is Andreychuk 9 points back. Year 6, 83 points, 11 ahead of Gilmour, Year 7, 74 points, 27 points ahead of next closest leaf, Year 8, 83 points, 10 ahead of Steve Thomas. Year 9, 73 points, 10 ahead of Steve Thomas, Year 10, 74 Points, 21 ahead of Gary Roberts, Year 11, 80 Points, 21 ahead of Darcy Tucker, 23 ahead of Mogilny(Mogily limited to 66 games) Year 12, 4 more goals but 7 less points than Mogilny. Year 13, 75 points, 22 more than McCabe, 25 more than Nieuwendyk. Year 14, 78 points, 10 more than McCabe. Year 15, 76 points, 18 more than Kaberle. Year 16, 78 points, 22 more than Antropov. Only 5 out of 15 years did he not lead his team in scoring, 3 of those he was playing with Joe Sakic each of those years he came second. From year five on only once was he less than 10 points ahead of the next closest player and in five seasons was more than 20 ahead. In three seasons the next closest player was a dman. I think these stats clearly illustrate that Sundin has seldom ever had scoring support. Even on the "stacked" teams that have been referenced he provided 15-30 percent of the teams goals himself. Sakic and Selanne are consistently referenced as comparisons to Sundin. If you look at their year by year numbers their performance is correlative to the player closest to them, every 100plus point season is shared with another top line talent at 90plus. The argument could be made that Sakic elevated those players or similar for Selanne but to suggest that Forsberg would not have put up the numbers he did with anyone but Sakic is ridiculous, the same for Kariya. Also reference several sharp drops in production that mediocre players take after moving off a line with Sundin re: Mike Johnson 97-98 to 98-99. On top of this Sundin has only once lost more than 10 man games to injury and last season at 37 years of age he finished 8th in scoring. Hockey is a team sport, I'm sure that HoF induction is a little more cut and dry in tennis or golf but in hockey you can't just look at numbers. How many players had career years skating next to Gretzky, how often do we hear "Next year expect player x to increase his numbers in a more offensive system, he didn't have many opportunities to score under coach x". What kind of numbers do you think Mats would have put up between Kovy and Hossa in Atlanta when they didn't have a center. Sundin has never won a Stanley Cup but that is not his fault and shouldn't be held against him. Teams win cups, GM's build teams. Sundin is not a GM and consequently is not responsible for the teams ultimate success or failure, his standard of play is much higher than 90 percent of players who have played on cup winning teams. Anyone can check the Wikipedia article on Mats Sundin for a list of his other accolades. Mats Sundin may not be a first-ballot hall of famer, but he has had a hall of fame career. I would like to see a convincing argument made against that. p.s. Please don't call me a Leafs fan when you flame me, I have been a Montreal Canadiens fan as long as I've been watching hockey the mid 80's and I'm currently following Columbus as well. The Leafs are an unfortunate franchise, but some teams have to lose because other teams have to win and not all teams are created equal.

You know, I came into this article prepared to defend Sundin, who I consider borderline HoF material. After all, it's true that he's been stuck on mediocre teams his entire career. But I think Costello makes an excellent overall point: for a superstar, Sundin has always seemed strangely off-the-radar leaguewide. He's never had a transcendent moment of greatness (the Orr leap, the Forsberg shootout), nor a league-leading statistical season, nor any major postseason accomplishments. At no time was he considered hands-down one of the top 3 centers in the league -- there were always at least a handful of guys in their prime who were better. Pretty much all he has done is be consistently good (at the 30 goal, 80 point leve) in a market prone to overanalyzing its players. And that's really not what the Hall is all about. I've been convinced... it's thumbs-down on this one. bostonblueline.blogspot.com

Let's not forget Pavel Bure never played has long as Mats Sundin, and never had that chance to falter with his age. Also, just about every player in the 80s put up over 1000 points in their career, since goalies couldn't save beach balls back then.