Campbell's Cuts: Sundin likely to choose Leafs, but should they accept?
Mats Sundin has spent 13 of his 17 NHL seasons with Toronto. (Photo by Bill Wippert/NHLI via Getty Images)
Ken Campbell
2008-07-28 13:29:22
Mats Sundin is expected to announce his intentions for next season on Friday, a full 125 days after he played his last meaningful hockey game.
Well, at least nobody can accuse Sundin of rushing into anything. So far, Sundin has turned down legitimate overtures from three teams – the Toronto Maple Leafs, Montreal Canadiens and Vancouver Canucks – putting all three of them in a holding pattern over the summer while they await his decision.
(By the way, isn’t it a little interesting that Joe Sakic and Teemu Selanne, who have both had infinitely more successful careers than Sundin, are in exactly the same position as Sundin and nobody mentions anything about them?)
And while the indecision has many scratching their heads, Sundin has earned the right to ruminate for as long as he wants. He has proven by his indecision that neither money nor playing for a contender is a motivating factor in all of this. Otherwise he would have made the decision the moment either the Canadiens (contender) or the Canucks (money) made their offers.
When Sundin says he honestly doesn’t know whether he wants to play next season, there is absolutely no reason to believe, given his track record over the years, he is not telling the truth 100 percent.
Nobody has the inside track on this one, but the betting here is that Sundin either retires or stays with the Maple Leafs on another one-year deal with a no-movement clause.
There are those who are a lot closer to the situation than I am who maintain Sundin is leaning away from offers that, on the surface, should be a lot more enticing than a return to the Maple Leafs; a team that promises to be no better than mediocre and will be brought up to that level because they have one of the top goalies in the NHL and one of the best technical and teaching coaches in the game.
First, let’s deal with Vancouver. Shortly after the free agency period opened July 1, the Canucks boldly presented Sundin with a two-year, $20 million offer, one that would make him the highest-paid player in the NHL and one that is unheard of for a player older than 35 under the new collective bargaining agreement.
But Sundin has had significant hip problems over the past couple of seasons. It was discovered he had a torn labrum in his hip after the 2006-07 season and while it did not require surgery and has not kept Sundin out of the lineup, he is concerned about the well-being of his hip with all the travel that is required by a west coast team and is apparently being advised that signing with Vancouver might not be his best option.
As far as Montreal is concerned, Sundin is apparently quite honestly having trouble seeing himself wearing a Canadiens sweater after all his years with the Maple Leafs. If so, it’s a noble gesture in an era when most players see themselves as nothing more than hired guns who have no problem turning their backs on their teams for the right price.
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But if you believe some of the whispers out there, at this stage of his career, Sundin has no interest in going to a team where he will be placed under intense pressure to lead a team to the Stanley Cup, which would undoubtedly be the case in Montreal, where Sundin would instantly be installed as the Canadiens’ No. 1 center ahead of Tomas Plekanec and Saku Koivu.
Those who know Sundin maintain he is content with winning the Olympic gold medal in 2006 and three World Championships and doesn’t believe his NHL career needs to be defined by whether or not he wins a Stanley Cup. And with $74 million in career earnings, he doesn’t see the need to pad his bank account with the ridiculous amount the Canucks are willing to pay him.
That leaves either retirement or the Maple Leafs and given Sundin’s agent recently said he thinks Sundin will play next season, the smart money is on the Maple Leafs.
But what mystifies some in the hockey world – present company included – is why the Leafs are interested in having Sundin come back. It could have something to do with the Leafs always, always, always making the easy decision and taking the path of least resistance.
The more difficult and potentially long-term beneficial decision would have been to do what the Green Bay Packers are doing with Brett Favre. The Leafs could simply tell Sundin, “Look, Mats. You have been wonderful for the organization and we thank you for everything you’ve done. Your number will be up in the rafters someday, but instead of just paying lip service to going in a different direction, we actually mean it this time. We’re rebuilding and we think relying on you the way we have over the years will take ice time and leadership away from players we think need to develop. We’re not going anywhere anyway.”
But no, if Sundin decides he wants to return to the Leafs, they will once again accept him with open arms and an open checkbook. Sundin’s presence, meanwhile, will ensure the Leafs remain precisely what they have been for the past two years – not good enough to make the playoffs and not bad enough to get a top-five draft pick.
Ken Campbell is a senior writer for The Hockey News and a regular contributor to THN.com. His blog appears Tuesdays and Fridays and his column, Campbell's Cuts, appears Mondays.
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Sean (Posted 2008-08-12 01:12:59)
Then he'll blow up in the second round and his new team will be humiliated in games 3 and 4. It will be a sad end to nauseating tale.
whatsthatsmell (Posted 2008-08-11 18:59:29)
Sundin will pull a Forsberg, he will sit out half the year, then sign with a contender of his choice.
Jacob Thompson (Posted 2008-08-05 12:24:06)
In all seriousness the leafs should sign then see what they can get for them at the trade deadline. This way they don't lose a player rather than gaining a couple at the trade deadline. He is a wanted player, why he has his haters is because everyone wants Toronto to win the cup and they blame it on him because he is the man who should have brought them one. Over the last 2 years he has broken numerous records, people want a Sundin. Even if they get rid of Sundin people will think that will make their chances to win a Stanley Cup higher! Ha! He is the teams moral! He is the soul of the leafs, after getting rid of Belak they would have lost the heart and soul of this team. Keep him till the trade deadline is what I say. Trade him for 1-2 players or one player and a first rounder. Just letting him go will be pathetic, like 17 years with the leafs was all for nothing then in my eyes for Sundin. At least if they trade him, they will get the worth.
Jesse (Posted 2008-08-04 19:58:31)
I'm hearing comparisons to Sakic. I remember when they traded for Sundin. I WISH they took Sakic instead.
Louis-Emmanuel (Posted 2008-08-02 11:10:58)
Hey it does not mean that a player gets 76 goals that he's better than a player who's been constant all of his career. No way Selanne is better than Mats. He has been a leader his hole career.
Pedro (Posted 2008-07-31 22:58:55)
Hey Ken Campbell, did or didn't the Leafs throw Mats under the bus before the trade deadline? I remember a postgame interview where Mats was asked why the Leafs no longer wanted him as their leader. I remember the look on his face and in his eyes. You ask if the Leafs should welcome him back as if they had nothing to do with Mats questioning his place with the team.
Scott Esposito (Posted 2008-07-31 14:12:04)
Jameson: I respect your thoughts and you made some very interesting points, even swaying me a bit. However, awards and nominations are subjective. Me? If I could pick any goalie to build my team around, it's Roy over Cujo and Belfour everytime. Sundin never had as a teammate a goalie the caliber of Roy, with whom Sakic won two Cups. (Something Ken Campbell should have noted in fairness to Sundin the very moment he foolishly compared Mats' career to Sakic's.) And let's be honest, Roy was a HUGE factor in helping Colorado win those Cups; it's not like Roy was there for show. I might be more willing to compare Sundin and Selanne if only because Sundin did have belfour, who won a Cup. But then again, Eddie won that Cup in '99 with a Stars team that was more solid than any Leaf team during Sundin's Toronto stint. And, honestly, would you rather build with Giguere or Belfour?
Jay (Posted 2008-07-31 13:41:45)
TopCat, my man....Great Post, you summed it all up!!
WingsRule....Conference Final games are meaningless? Especially when you are the one carrying the entire team there? C'mon
Wings Rule (Posted 2008-07-31 09:53:29)
That's funny about what Campbell said "125 days since he played a meaningful game". He hasn't done that since he's be playing in Toronto for 13 years.
toronto maple leafs (Posted 2008-07-30 21:10:25)
hes right sundin is really good but its time for him to move on so the leafs can finaly win a cup
Steve Cowen (Posted 2008-07-30 17:55:57)
Leaf fan and jonny onenut, when are the two of you gonna grow up. Yeah , we know you hate the Habs. But why just spew out utter nonsense. Go ahead , be a Leaf fan. But the track records have proven for themselves. Toronto hasnt won in 40 years or even made the playoffs in the last three. When Price one for Canada I am sure you sung his praises. And he will be an elite goalie in the NHL. Laraque is the toughest SOB in the NHL , so I am very happy to see him back in his home town . Komisarek proved to be a huge asset to the Habs , with the second most hits in the NHL last year (and if I remember correctly one of the few defenceman to be able to go toe to toe with Sundin ) So please boys go back to living in your dream world thinking that the Leafs are the greatest team in the NHL. And as for you team loyalty, as a Hab fan living in the GTA, I remeber 2 things from last season. Leaf fans and sports reporters calling for the team to tank to have a chance for Stamkos. Any loyal fan should be pushing for a win no matter what. And the second thing was when Sundin was out and the Leafs started to win , everyone was ready to run him out of town. Now he is being talked about like he is a God. Talk about a bunch of fickle fans
crazy canuck (Posted 2008-07-30 17:03:22)
leafs would take komisarek in a heartbeat.
HabsMan11 (Posted 2008-07-30 16:28:18)
lmaoooo Leaf fan your talking about the habs not being able to skate? oh right, cause toronto is so much faster...was it just me or was mccabe not able to catch up to komisarek in OT when he scored on raycroft on a breakaway? mind you he could have avoided the whole situation by not making that terrible pass in the first place...also, komisarek didnt have much trouble catching up to tucker everytime he was going to plaster him into the boards did he? no, so dont talk about "only montreal would take these guys", in case you forgot we won the East and scored the most goals in the regular season? must have been doing something right dont u think?
G Topaze (Posted 2008-07-30 13:11:45)
Right now Sundin is managing the TML's. The best thing for the future of the Leafs is to withdraw their offer to Sundin.
Just compare The Boyle trade: when Boyle was faced with a team not wanting his services he showed a lot of "character" and moved on. Look at the good it did TBL...But "character" has never been a byword with TML management or players of late. I think Sundin is procrastinating until the "Kubina" trade deadline has passed...and then he will do Vanc a favor and accept their 20mm$. Get rid of him NOW, get rid of McCabe. Get rid of Kubina. Get rid of Kaberle..(keeping these underachievers will only result in missing out on a top 5 draft pick, but still not making the playoffs) that reps approx 23mm$ in cap space and that reps 5 or 6 quality young players. Go Sundin...GO AWAY!
Payne (Posted 2008-07-30 12:26:14)
With or without Sundin I cannot wait to watch the Leafs as cellar dwellers for another season. Some things never grow old!
john gallant (Posted 2008-07-30 11:36:02)
Give me a break. It's really between Montreal, Toronto & retirement. Montreal makes the most sense over Toronto. Theres is nothing left for him to accomplish in Toronto (since a Cup is a while away for them) and don't give me that hogwash about "to hard to wear the CH after so many years with the Leafs". Doug Gilmore, Darcy Tucker, Vincent Damphousse, Jonas Hoglund have all flip flopped between MTL & Tor. Also, you can't really compare Selanne & Sackic in this situation. In MTL's case they want a big center not another right wing (Selanne) and Sackic might be plan B in MTL but he is smaller than Sundin. I thought Selanne made it clear, Anahiem or retirement?
Rob M (Posted 2008-07-30 11:25:42)
Sorry about the Sundin stats N R, I was working when I put that in and I don't have lots of time to type these posts. You are right on his stats, but my point still holds true on who had better careers. AND as a person who doesn't like the Leafs, the Canucks or the Habs, I think it's in Sundin's best interest to go to Vancouver collect his millions for the 70 or 80 points he MIGHT get and then call it a career. He can retire easy knowing he was one of the best Swedes to ever play the game.
DaveC (Posted 2008-07-30 04:54:01)
Much as it goes against every fibre of my being to say this, I think one of the problems that the Leafs have is the loyalty of their fans. The owners know that no matter how good or bad the on-ice product is the arena will be full to the rafters, so where is the incentive to improve the team. I understand that the Leafs are partly owned by a pension fund, whose goal is to make a return on their investment for their members. If they are happy with the financial returns as they stand, why push the boat out and spend more money with no guarantee of greater incoming revenues.
MariJane (Posted 2008-07-30 02:59:10)
The situation in montreal has improved in the past 5 yrs. We have a new direction, a new staff, and a whole new team. The amount of talented youth pushing upwards is amazing. Since Bob Gainey has taken the habs under his wings things have changed. Toronto unfortunatly is in an awful position and no one can deny that. As for Carey Price in net, i must remind you that this 20 year old weights over 220 poinds, and will become one of the best goalies in the NHL. Whether we are contendors or pretendors is not really a question...the roster speaks for itself. This young team has future and is getting better every year. We need to fill up some wholes and if Sundin is willing to take up the challenge, then we welcome him. If not we will continue our search for our 1st line center. Gayney does not rush and does not gamble money.
As for those who spend their time comparing Sakic, Sundin, and Seleanne...well thats just inmature. They are different individuals who have lived different experiences. They are great players who have achieved a great deal in the carreers.
For the leafs: i do feel bad for the crappy team you have. The problem is the organization itself...rebuilding must be done on all levels.
I just want the cup back in CANADA!!!!!
Gord Wilson (Posted 2008-07-30 02:57:18)
I am willing to give credit where credit is due, but is Mats Sundin going to make a $20 million improvement in the Vancouver Canucks? Not a chance! I'd rather that half the money was offered to Joe Sakic and bring a classy BC boy home. Sundin has certainly been a top player in the NHL, but he is not the answer Vancouver fans are looking for.
johnny onenut (Posted 2008-07-30 01:59:17)
Montreal a contender? With Price in net? Give me a freakin break, Gainey will stuff it up for sure.
salim brooks (Posted 2008-07-30 01:12:35)
is fletcher the answer?
Leaf fan (Posted 2008-07-30 01:02:30)
Laraque-Komisarik-Kostopoulos can barely skate let alone play hockey. The only team that would take them is montreal. Sundin would cream every Montreal player.
Leaf fan (Posted 2008-07-30 00:43:12)
You leaf haters are just jealous because your favourite team's don't have as loyal fan's as toronto. You people just jump ship when times are rough.
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-07-30 00:22:16)
All 3 are hall of famers and were great to watch. Selanne vs. Bure was great
back in the day, especially when Peca laid out Selanne with one of the top 5
best hits of all time. Remember? Selanne doesn't.
Bryan The King (Posted 2008-07-29 23:05:16)
Good Article Ken. If they do intend to rebuild it's time to let Sundin go. The problem is, Fletcher really hasn't done anything to show us that this is the mode that he's going for. He's given away picks like they are water, he's over paid on RFA's, and brought in older players. Toronto probably will bring Sundin back at some high price. The best thing they could do is offer him a 1 year deal for around 5 million with no no-trade contract. We know Sundin's feeling about being a "Rental Player" So it would allow them to save face, and allow him to leave.
N R (Posted 2008-07-29 22:59:22)
Those totals are Sundin's by the way. (forgot to mention that)
N R (Posted 2008-07-29 22:58:15)
Rob M next time you decide to post stats while trying to prove a point, make sure that they're correct first.
GP 1,305 Pts 1,321 (555+766)
Rick T (Posted 2008-07-29 22:45:21)
The team may have tried to trade him, however Mats has always stated that he wants to remain in TO. He wanted to retire in TO. Whether an interm GM tried to trade him or not he made these statements to his fans. I admired Mats for not wanting to be a rental player, for wanting to stick with his friends at the AC Centre. GM's and coaches and coaches have came and gone through his career in Toronto, but his fans have been with him through all that time. I believe Mats will come back, he will be a leaf and we should all be greatful and no one should ever come to him with the question of waiving his no trade clause.
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-07-29 22:41:06)
Can we all at least agree that Selanne, Sakic & Sundin are/were players that brought game. All 3 were fun to watch.
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-07-29 22:08:49)
Rick T- keep in mind that it was the Leafs who tried to trade Mats last year. If he signs with anyone else don't hold a grudge against him. If he leaves it won't be because of money, the team made it pretty clear they don't want him anymore last year.
Rick T (Posted 2008-07-29 21:52:52)
You people who think Mats should be in anything but a Leafs Jersey must all be under the age of 20 and not remember when players played for a team and not themselves. Mats should be a leaf, and should be a leaf as long as he wants to be. In a sports world where players play for paychecks instead of team pride I would think everyone would respect the hell out of Mats. I will think less of Mats if he does leave the leafs for the almighty dollar or to play for the Habs.
DetroitSucks (Posted 2008-07-29 21:25:18)
I hate the Wings. It therefore makes it a perfect fit for Sundin. I hope he goes there and for some reason or another they bomb in the first or second round and he is back at square one...no Stanley for you.
crazy canuck (Posted 2008-07-29 21:24:49)
hilary,tampa has no place to put stamkos except the minors and they have no defence to speak of.also sundin is a maple leaf forever.he will finish his career in toronto.
HabsMan11 (Posted 2008-07-29 21:16:53)
Is it just me or is everyone writing off Montreal? Did Sundin publicly state Montreal was no longer an option? Did Bob Gainey come out and say the Habs are going in a different direction? NO. So what's with eveyone saying Canucks or Leafs, Leafs or retirement, when Montreal is right there, if not more in than the Leafs are-if he wants to AT LEAST try for a Cup, he comes to Montreal. If he wants to be greedy and run to the money, he goes to Vancouver, and goes through another season where the team he suits up for misses the playoffs. If he wants to help the Leafs go through another mediocre year where there not good enough to make the playoffs, yet not bad enough to get a high draft pick, he can do that too. That's just my honest opinion, if he really wants to win that bad, he can come to Montreal, or he can take a massive pay cut and win a guaranteed Cup in Detroit.
BTW, Vesa Toskala, one the best goalies in the NHL? Are Alex Auld and Brent Johnson on your list too?
Rob M (Posted 2008-07-29 20:51:46)
Nobody said that winning a Cup makes you a better player but Sakic and Selanne have lead their teams to Cups. That is a majr difference between them and Sundin. Sundin's best season doesn't even compare with Sakic's or Selanne's best seasons. If I wanted to win games I would take those two over Sundin any day of the week.
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-07-29 20:50:57)
Crazy Canuck- Trades like that occur 1-in your dreams 2- In Miami or 3- In Toronto, except the promising up and coming player would be leaving Toronto and the over paid, over rated players are arriving.
Steve Cowen (Posted 2008-07-29 19:51:17)
No chance Sundin ends up with the Wings. Sundin will end up a Leaf again . And he will end his career without winning a cup.Which is all he deserves. He has played in the NHL for over a decade and he doesnt care about the Cup , the Gold medal was all he needs. Stay in Toronto , they dont care about the Cup either.
Patrick Lawton (Posted 2008-07-29 18:56:10)
My money says Mats bags $3M or less to take faceoffs and center the second or third line in Motown. That's right, big bad ass red winning machine Detroit. (And I'm a Habs fan!)
No love for the leaf... (Posted 2008-07-29 17:50:30)
The Leafs should trade McCabe for nice fresh bag of pucks. Kubina could then be moved for something lucrative, say a dozen clean water bottles. Then, finally, Maple Leaf brass could do their "loyal" fans a favor with the money they will save from Sundin's departure and could afford to pay people to fill the seats behind the benches for the first ten minutes of every period until the sorry season ticket holders return...
Hilary Savarie (Posted 2008-07-29 16:12:41)
CrazyCanuck;The leafs should trade McCabe and Kubina to Tampa for Stamkos?And Tampa wpuld be interested in that because????
glenn theriault (Posted 2008-07-29 16:05:44)
first off...I am not a leafs fan and never will be.
You bring Sundin back because as an organization you want to show that your a team that player WANT to play for and show loyalty to. By saying thanks but no thanks to your all time leading scorer you are saying we as an organization have little to no class. When Yzermans career was winding down you did not see Detroit entertain anything but welcoming him back as long as he wanted to play. Same goes for other...Sackic, Lemieux, Gretzky, Dionne, Chelios, Lafleur, etc, etc, etc,...Thats what organizations in building mode or contending mode do. Thats why they become winning franchises...it is a culture they foster. The way Toronto handled Sundin at the trade deadline last year was inexcusuable. the media also share some of that blame as well. I bet the inside talk amoung players is that they do not want to go there for these reasons...end result signing guys by the name of Finger???? for millions because no else is ineterested.
Shame on the Leafs...there getting exactly what they deserve!
Out!
Smack Yourself Stupid (Posted 2008-07-29 15:58:32)
In case anyone forgot,for Sakic's first three years in the league the Nords were the worst team in the NHL...I think it was the 89-90 season he had 102 points and the next-highest scorer had 34. He literally carried that team for several years and deserved to hoist Stanley in '96 even though they'd already flown the coop to Denver...the sad irony is that Sundin could have been there with him!!!
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-07-29 15:06:08)
Great points Trevor. Who is considered the better player out of Marcel and Gilbert Dionne? But wait! Gilbert won a cup! Who cares. Luck has so much to do with it. Being in the right place, on the right team, with the right management makes all the difference.
Trevor Mc Dougall (Posted 2008-07-29 14:57:17)
So getting one's name on the Stanley Cup automatically makes one a better player than another who never does, interesting. This means that players like Ladislav Kohn, Jesse Belanger, and Eddie Shack were far better players than Sundin, Saku Koivu, Markus Naslund or Keith Tkachuk have been. By the way, a player does not win a Stanley Cup; the team wins the Stanley Cup and allows the players, coaches, management, and club staff to get their names engraved for posterity. These three players have all been great ambassadors for the game so cut them some slack - they have the right to decide when and where (or if) they want to play this year. And please, will some of you please type in English instead of the gibberish that you produce?
Rob M (Posted 2008-07-29 14:45:04)
I hope you all are joking about Sundin being better than Selanne and Sakic or disputing that they are 'infinitely more successful' than Sundin. Both hold Cups and while I will give you that Sakic has always played for good teams that is not the case for Selanne. Sundin played for the Leafs through some good/great years in the 90's. If you want to compare SUNDIN has played 1156 games scoring 1167 (496+671) points. SAKIC ahs played 1363 games scoring 1629 (623+1006) points. SELANNE has played 1067 (100 less than Sundin) and scored 1158 (552+606) points. I would call that more successful. Don't give me better team junk because the Ducks have only been good since Selanne's return to the team. He played for the Jets who were never good, the original Mighty Ducks who were OK and San Jose when they were just OK.
crazy canuck (Posted 2008-07-29 14:37:28)
the leafs will take sundin back because he was their leading scorer and they don't have a top line center without him.the leafs should offer mccabe and kubina to tampa bay for stamkos after he signs his contract and let sundin teach him the finer points of playing center.tampa bay is loaded with forward talent but are short on defence.a swap of that kind would benefit both teams and give the leafs another high draft pick next year to continue rebuilding.
Jameson (Posted 2008-07-29 14:21:33)
Scott: Joseph was nominated for a Hart during his initial season with the Leafs and received two Vezina nominations in his first two years with the Leafs. Belfour was also nominated in 2003 in his first season in Toronto. Goaltending was never the issue with the Leafs and they were fortunate to receive elite goaltending in every season from 1999-2004 with the exception of 2002, a relative off-year for Joseph when he posted just a .906 save percentage.
The fact of the matter is that the Leafs teams over that period were the fifth most successful team in hockey. They weren't quite an elite squad but the averaged the seventh most regular-season points over that period, twice led the Conference in scoring (including the NHL back in 1999), made two Eastern Conference Finals, and played the third most playoff games behind Dallas and New Jersey. A few breaks here and there, coupled with perhaps a younger core and they would have avoided the injuries that plagued them in the post-season.
Mats' return would be welcome and hardly an obstruction to any of the young players on the Leafs forward ranks. The one thing that the team lacks is a dominant young number one pivot. Antropov is more effective on the wing and, while he's a 55-60 point quality forward with defensive skill, isn't suited in talent to lead the Leafs up the middle. Bringing Mats back for another year would be advantageous in terms of leadership and helping young forwards such as Tlusty and Kulemin develop into more responsible, effective NHL players.
Scott Esposito (Posted 2008-07-29 13:58:30)
Hey, Dave: Is it Sundin's fault that he didn't play on a team with Roy or Giguere in goal? And please spare me Cujo or Eddie B. Both are in a class below Roy and Giguere.
Rick T (Posted 2008-07-29 13:56:28)
I find it refreshing to see a player loyal to a team. If Sundin wants to come back to the Leafs I say great. He can teach a young team how to play the game, and how to lead. I don't see this team as washed up as most media people do. If Sundin comes back I believe we can make the play offs. This guy had a great year last year. We have a goalie, our defence under achieved last year. I can't wait for Mats to come back to TO.
Dave C (Posted 2008-07-29 13:42:06)
DBP - 'infinitely more successful' is the quote; not 'infinitely better'. When you consider that both Selanne and Sakic have won the cup while Sundin has won none, I think it's difficult to argue.
Sundin and the Leafs are playing 'you're it' with the bad guy label. If Sundin signs elsewhere he'll be vilified by fans who persist in filling the seats for a franchise that's done nothing to deserve them for 41 years. If he accepts the Leafs' offer (which they won't retract to avoid the previously mentioned bad guy label) they'll finish in 17th again, have a middling to poor pick and, much to my amusement, wallow in mediocrity for another 10 years while choice draft picks go to the likes of Tampa Bay.
Scott Esposito (Posted 2008-07-29 13:35:38)
Ken, I'm not sure why you have to compare Sundin's career to those of Selanne and Sakic. That's a whole different column and does not pertain to whether Sundin will play this season. Besides, what do you base your comparison on, winning the Cup? If so, give us all a break. Remember, Sundin didn't play on a team with Roy or Giguere.
habsfan (Posted 2008-07-29 12:49:33)
ok i have a few comments to make. first of all sakic and sellanne have had better careers because they played for WAY better teams. Also i believe that u are denying the habs chances in this are way higher than you think, because honeslty if i were him i wouldnt just play for the leafs because then i wouldnt have any chances at a cup and i would play for a team that sucks. honestly i were him i would view this as an oppurtunity to play for a better team. ur article in my opinion seemed to be biased towards the leafs, well obviously since its in toronto.
Mike Gillis (Posted 2008-07-29 12:24:06)
You're mistaken Rube, Sundin will Captain the 2010 Swede Olympic team in his NEW hometown of Vancouver! Yes, he's coming to the west coast, he'll annouce it on Friday I swear! It's the land of rainbows and candydrops and we're going to win lots and lots of stanley cups and then I'll be remembered as the greatest GM ever!
DBP (Posted 2008-07-29 12:23:19)
Sakic and Sellanne had "infinitely" better careers. I think not.
Rube (Posted 2008-07-29 12:17:05)
Speaking of Olympics, with all three of these players on the way out who captains Canada, Sweden and Finland in 2010? My gut says Iginla for Canada and Lidstrom for the Swedes. Maybe Koivu for the Finns?
The Bens (Posted 2008-07-29 12:04:48)
This Olympic argument is tiring. Remember that the Olympics represent a two week period in these players careers, unlike the nine month stretch to Lord Stanley. Yes, it is worth pointing out. Sundin has always played great for Sweden and his NHL numbers should not be overlooked. But Joe and Teemu both wear much more hardware and accolades than Mats.
I'll be the bold one to go ahead and say it. I would jump at the opportunity to watch any of these three players wear my team's colors.
Muddy (Posted 2008-07-29 12:02:33)
Perhaps the author should be less free with superlatives. Sakic and Selanne haven't had "infinitely" more success in their careers than Sundin. Sundin has a career 1.01 ppg average, Sakic a 1.19 ppg and Selanne 1.08 ppg. These numbers are not radically different, let alone "infinitely". Sakic and Selanne have won their cups, but on significantly better teams than Sundin ever played for. Sundin carried marginal Leafs teams and performed admirably as a captain. There is more to measuring the success of player's career than the number of cups he has won. If Sundin signed with cup contender like Detroit and won a ring would he then have had an "infinitely" more successful career for having played that one season?
Matthew Garey (Posted 2008-07-29 11:15:22)
Sundin is one of the greats. He reminds me of Halladay for the Jays who keeps dedicating a lot of hard work but has poor management to get the right pieces to build around him. The LEAFS need him to help Steen and Stajan become the leaders they need to be. He will also make players like Blake and Tlusty play much better, not to mention Antropov and Ponikarovsky. GO LEAFS GO!! Sundin please stay with the LEAFS!!!
TopCat (Posted 2008-07-29 08:07:28)
Lets be honest here, if Sundin iced for any team other than the Leafs then everyone would be singing his praises. You don't put up the points he has, both goals and assists, in the NHL by being a bad player, he's given everything and hopefully for one more season will keep giving everything to hokcey and to the Leafs. If a player ditches his team to go chasing a cup people have a go at that player yet Mats could be giving up the icing on the cake of his great career out of LOYALTY and for doing that he gets called a loser, that is truly pathetic. And to say he got carried to the Olympic and World golds is a joke, he's a star in every sense of the word and his only fault is that he has remained loyal to the Leafs despite how badly they've been run he feels he owes it to the fans. It may be a pipe dream but for him a Stanley Cup anywhere other than Toronto wouldn't feel right and yet he's getting criticised for that. He's not chasing money, he's not jumping on a victory bandwagon, he feels he has a job to do at the Leafs and if he was in any other uniform everyone would be saying what an amazing thing that is. He still has a job to do at the Leafs and the Leafs need him, I have no doubts he'll still be the Leafs top scorer again next season and with players like Tlusty coming through he'll be a perfect mentor for how to play the game right, how to train right and to develop them as players and as people. Mats will always be a NHL legend and I just wish people would see past the rubbish management of MLSE and respect Mats in his own right, it's not his fault that the team owners have destoyed the soul of this great team.
Andrew Cadeau (Posted 2008-07-29 07:13:51)
I keep hearing the leafs are rebuilding and I look at that roster, it hardly looks like rebuilding: 8 players over 30 years old.
gary bushwacher (Posted 2008-07-29 01:20:53)
Matt, I won't disagree that Wilson's style will extract better performance but until that happens, no one can say Toskala is a top goalie. Frankly it should be embarassing to make that claim without the results to back it up...yet
rick miller (Posted 2008-07-29 00:59:25)
Good point hockeydude, I looked up the stats cuz I figured maybe he was a floater on the team, maybe 2nd centre behind Forsberg. But Sundin actually had more points than anyone else I looked at. More than Zetterberg, Holmstrom and the Sedins. Too bad I couldn't find Lidstrom or Forsbergs Olympic stats listed anywhere - that would of been interesting.
Troy (Posted 2008-07-29 00:47:49)
Hockeydude...Mats has been given an opportunity to play with the Habs...is that not good enough for him?? Gillis has 20million reasons why he should go to Van, thats not enough either. What puzzles me is why everyone is hanging on to his next word? Move on already, sign some guys who wanna play.
HockeyDude (Posted 2008-07-29 00:33:31)
Who was the Captain of Canada's 2006 Olympic Team? Joe Sakic. Who was Captain of Sweden's hockey team? Mats Sundin. Who won gold? Mats Sundin. Who didn't get anything? Joe Sakic. Who had the favoured team? Joe Sakic. What about Teemu? Silver Medal, lost to Mats' Swedes. Yeah that about covers it retards, give Sundin a team to play with and you'll see who comes out on top.
Tyson Harris (Posted 2008-07-29 00:15:16)
I Think that having Sundin on the team would better in the leafs development. Having Cujo in net will help, playing with some of the most experienced players in the world benefits player that are just average or under developed. Sundin should be the key in rebuilding; how many teams win a cup with out a superstar player? Having Mats Sundin in the Captain roll is what the team needs. Get rid of players that show no potential and make a lot of big mistakes because they have there rolls reversed.
They need a new Assistant captain & Tomas Kaberle is not the problem.
There is a few million in Wasted cap space and Mats is not the waisted cash, there are other players the leafs can spare. Also bringing Teemu Selanne or Joe Sakics careers into a Mats Sundin conversation is stupid.
How can you compare, both of them depended on a roster worth bragging about, they had more people to mesh with teams that you can brag about, put either one of them in mats boots, number would change you would really see what kind of players they are, I would bet they would have worse numbers then Mats. The Maple leafs need Mats Sundin, not having mats on the ice would be like ripping out the teams hart and would be negative change that will hurt the leafs and some of there players that need that guidance or experience to help bring out there best.
Gordon (Posted 2008-07-29 00:11:34)
I don't get how someone can criticise a player for taking their time in making their decision. They are UFAs, have fullfilled their contracts and have earned the right to make a decision or not to make a decision. I really don't understand all the hurt feelings and the only reason why people talk about it is because there is nothing else to talk about in the off season of hockey, seriously, THN has already done stories on 2009 UFAs. If Sundin goes back to the Leafs he will be the best player on the team, if he went to Montreal he would be the first line centre, if he went to Vancouver he would be the only guy to score more than 20 goals, if he went to Detroit (as much as it pains me to say it) they probably would win the stanley cup. He is still a great player and will make whatever team he plays on next year better even if it is in the beer leagues.
Sean (Posted 2008-07-28 23:45:16)
That would be something. Something like one too many centres and too many old guys. They're fine the way they are.
Bob Allisat (Posted 2008-07-28 23:12:28)
If Sundin were to join the Red Wings that would virtually lock a repeat Stanley Cup Championship. Now wouldn't that be something, eh?
JayReatsgoatmeat (Posted 2008-07-28 22:41:35)
Everyone bashes the leafs even when Quinn got them to the eastern conference championship against Carolina the song was the same... Sundin is a solid power forward/center who can handle the rediculous media... i don't blame him for taking his sweet time. The new leafs need some form of a captain to transition to a new younger captain. Stajan isn't the guy... Kaberle is a good assistant, but not a captain. Fletcher is doing a great job considering what he was left to take care of. Go Leafs!
chris (Posted 2008-07-28 22:26:29)
Sundin has been a class act his entire career . I find it very refreshing to see that he's not all about the money like most athletes are these days.I'm a Habs fan & would welcome him here,but he's been the franchise player for the enemy all these years,so it just doesn't fit.I wish the Leafs had as much class as Sundin has !
Brian Kemp (Posted 2008-07-28 22:23:32)
J.G., Sundin had a bloated contract? The guy put up a point agame. That's first line numbers. He got paid 5.5 mil. That's high second line money. Seems like he was underpaid. I like Sundin, he's a better player than some of the goofs on here seem to think, but come on, Sakic has had a better career, and that's coming from a Wings fan. Selanne probably has, too, although that one is debatable. Selanne has had higher highs, but Sundin has been far more consistent. Sundin has been better internationally, Selanne won a Cup. Nicholas, what the heck does "all Swede and no Finnish" mean? Is this one of those idiotic "Swedes have no heart" statements that still seem to pop up from time to time. Tell it to Forsberg or one third of the Wings roster, if that is what it is. If it isn't, what the heck is it? As far as what Sundin should do, if he goes to the Leafs, who cares? He won't turn them into contenders, so all this talk about that is wasted space. The Leafs should take him back because he will still be their best player. He only plays 18 minutes a night and still produces, so it's not like he's really taking development time away from the kids, and it's not like the kids are all that great of prospects anyways. On the Canucks, it's the same story. Their D is okay, I think Luongo is fantastic, but their offense is atrocious, and as good as Sundin is, it will still be atrocious. The Habs are a different story. Sundin wouldn't have to be the man there, contrary to reports. They are a very good team without him. With him as a complimentary player, it might be enough to get them into the Cup final. If he doesn't want to go to the Leafs rival, good for him. No one should be mad at him if he does go, but it is different to see a guy do that. Anyone that thinks that makes him a coward should lay off the Don Cherry Kool Aid. It makes him CLASSY, and that is why the Leafs should sign him, because from top to bottom, the organization is lacking class. Trying to trade him, and trying to make him the bad guy, for actually expecting his team to honor his contract. The nerve of that guy. I've rambled on long enough.
Nick Eman (Posted 2008-07-28 22:04:03)
D'oh. Sakic is coming off hernia surgery the other two are not, so I more sympathetic to Sakic taking his sweet time.
Steve Cowen (Posted 2008-07-28 22:02:28)
The quote that was on another web site was dead on. "The Sundin screw job." I cant understand all the hype if Sundin is gonna play or not. Yeah , over 1000 games and points, so. Does that mean he deserves to be the highest player in the league? Or any of the attention he his getting. If he deserved any of this attention, shouldnt he have been able to carry the Leafs to the playoffs at least once in the last 3 years. So Mats , please put the Blue and White back on. We can keep having the discusion who is the greatest player to play the game , that never won a Cup.
Nick Eman (Posted 2008-07-28 22:02:15)
-First Sakic and Selanne don't play in Toronto and neither one of them is coming off hernia surgery.
-Secondly, as far as I have heard, no team has offered Selanne a 2-year $20 million dollar contract.
-Thirdly, this is not the first time Sundin has dragged out his decision to play or not. Second time for Selanne he is getting some negative press. Sakic has never dragged things out this long, last year he signed on April 9th!
Matt (Posted 2008-07-28 21:55:10)
Gary Bushwacher, I think you'll find Toskala's numbers much improved with Ron Wilson's coaching style. Paul Maurice's defensive game was horrible, man to man, he gave them a system only talented defensemen could handle - left Toskala out to dry. Wilson will have these guy in position, not all over the ice and the goaltenders will actually stand a chance.
K.D. (Posted 2008-07-28 21:31:03)
If Sakic got traded to Toronto and Sundin played some of his prime with Forsberg, perhaps this conversation would revolve around Sakic. Don't get me wrong, Sakic is one of my top 10 players and will stay there for a long time, but if he had to work with the same talent as Sundin, who knows. Maybe, just maybe, were judging Sundin too harshly.
Gary Bushwacher (Posted 2008-07-28 21:14:53)
"Leafs have one the NHL's top goalies?"
Where that come from?
I actually had to check the roster.
I thought I had missed a news item.
Turned to be just a run of the mill guy and a retread.
Ian Gould (Posted 2008-07-28 21:05:45)
I'm getting tired of all the pounding the Canucks take on web sites like this. They have an excellent defense (top 5 in the league) and bobby lou in net. That puts them in just about every game they play. They will be right in the middle of the pack fighting for a playoff position. The NW teams are evenly matched and the Canucks may even win it. Usually people bad mouth other teams out of ignorance or jealousy.
I do not like the offer given to Sundin and i'm less than impressed with Gillis; but time will tell. My main concern with the offer is Sundin is at the end of his career and will be around for at MOST two years. NOT some one you build around. I expect he will be back in Toronto.
Montreal fans: the uneducated ones (seems every Canadian team has a ton of them). The Habs are becoming a good team. Are they great? NO. So get over it!
Joe D (Posted 2008-07-28 19:56:22)
the Leafs are rebuilding????.... how old's Cujo?
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-07-28 19:45:33)
It looks like there may be some anti euro bias at play here. Why isn't Sakic being ripped for waiting to make a decision?
Leigh Parker-Jervis (Posted 2008-07-28 19:01:40)
OK so Mats has played way over a 1000 games, has way over a 1000 points, and as an added bonus has scored over 500 goals,....and you have some problem with this? How many other players in the 80 or odd years that the NHL has been going can make this claim?
Less than 100
And yet he's not allowed to take a bit of time to chose what He's going to do next?
So Who's the pinhead here?
zane (Posted 2008-07-28 18:55:34)
"he is concerned about the well-being of his hip with all the travel that is required by a west coast team"
they don't walk y'know, they have planes n stuff to get them to the games
Benoit Robin (Posted 2008-07-28 18:22:22)
Holy my God! Is it me or people tend to forget the past? Since when refusing the offer from a team contender (MTL) makes Mats Sundin a coward? Does that mean that Joe Sakic is a coward for wanting to finish his career in Colorado, even though the team will have difficulty contending for a playoff spot? Have people forgotten about former Leaf Borje Salming? Despite getting a beating almost every time he played the Flyers, he always got back on his skates. The Ballard era, during which Salming was playing, was far from great, see hideous. Salming could have requested a trade, but instead, he stayed put with the lowly Leafs. When he comes back to Toronto, the fans surely let him know how much they appreciated his effort on the ice and his tenure in a Leaf uniform. The same could be said of any former Habs who are honoured by the fans and the organization (see Patrick Roy and hopefully, Emile Bouchard for the centennial of the Bleu, Blanc et Rouge). I will be the first one to scream my head off of joy if Sundin agrees to come to Montreal. However, the question we must ask ourselves is more the following one: while on holidays in his native Sweden, who did Sundin give a call to (other than his agent), Borje Salming (to get know the feeling of retiring without a cup, but being honoured by the organization and the fans) or Peter Forsberg (another Swede who never shied away from leaving the Avs for other contending teams, see Philly and the Preds)? We are getting to a deadline and time will finally let us know if Mr. Campbell was right or in the left field! By the way, Nicholas, "c'est pas fort de terminer ta note avec un "suckas" (tu devrais surveiller ton orthographe!).
Brian P (Posted 2008-07-28 17:40:26)
Of course it's just my opinion, A.K., I'm the one writing it. The only way I could possibly know any of that as fact is if I were Mats Sundin's mother or something. You want me to qualify every statement I make with 'in my opinion'? That's just bad writing. Campbell's statement that Sakic and Selanne have had infinitely better careers above is his opinion, but he doesn't need to qualify it as such. It's implied because he's the one who's saying it.
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-07-28 17:39:25)
Red, your attitude towards french players is a joke. That has got to be the lamest statement I've read in a long time. Anyone who still thinks french players are soft probobally thinks Don Cherry should be coaching in the NHL. I'd love to see you spout that b.s. with Laroque or Brashear in the same room.
Craig (Posted 2008-07-28 17:18:23)
I hope Sundin does go back to Toronto, then the Canucks can enjoy the Top 5 pick instead of the Leafs.
Flyerfan52 (Posted 2008-07-28 17:17:48)
The one nobody mentions is Forsberg. With his injuries, I hope he's the one that stays retired. Much as I like Temmu (Jets, rookie scoring record, all around good guy, etc.), Sakic & Forsberg are probably going to be the only two to make the HHOF. Just an opinion.
A.K. (Posted 2008-07-28 17:15:21)
Brian P, you're entitled to your opinions based on your own observations but don't go around stating them like they're facts. "Sundin is this, Sundin is that" - you don't know the guy, no matter how many brief little interviews you see or read. to say he's afraid is pretty damn ignorant - you have no idea what the guy is thinking.
Nicholas (Posted 2008-07-28 17:00:08)
Out of the three, being a Canadiens fan, I would take Selanne in a heartbeat. He's a bonafide scorer who has a Stanley Cup to his credit and the thought of a Higgins/Koivu/Selanne line would be unreal. But overall I don't think there is any question that Sakic is the most respected leader of the 3. Sundin would be a fine addition to any team, but I would just as well not see him in a Habs jersey. If he can't make up his mind if he wants to play by mid summer, his drive and passion to win is obviously lacking. Shock everyone Selanne and jump ship to the Canadiens, win a cup with the greatest team in the history of hockey with your fellow countryman. Because in the long run, we all know, Sundin is all Swede and no Finnish. Koivu has 3 times the heart Sundin ever had and the centennial year will be his crowning achievement. Go Habs Go suckas!!
Brian P (Posted 2008-07-28 16:58:44)
Let me clarify then, Troy: he's a lazy player at this stage of his career. Maybe when he was younger things would've been different. Certainly back in the late 90's and early part of this decade staying with the Leafs was as good a move as any, since it looked like they had as good a shot at breaking through as a lot of teams, and Sundin was a big part of that. But I think that now, at this stage of his career, Sundin just doesn't have the fire left to make a contender competitive, and that's the problem here. Personally, I think he should retire.
Troy (Posted 2008-07-28 16:53:55)
Brian P...I'm not even a Leaf fan but I can tell Sundin is far from lazy. 2002 was as close as he could get the Leafs. The Leafs IMHO haven't been able top manage a cap situation. The last 3years w/no playoffs are a testament to that.
Brian P (Posted 2008-07-28 16:47:24)
Sundin not wanting to go to a team where there's any pressure to win a Stanley Cup makes the most sense to me, otherwise he'd have accepted a deal to Detroit at the last trade deadline or signed with the Wings before Hossa did. I'm sure he'd like to win one before his career is over, but he doesn't want to take the chance of going someplace like Montreal where he'd be the last big piece of the puzzle they need to really take a run, which would produce immense pressure to pull it off, a lot of which would fall on him, and he doesn't want to take the chance that he and the team won't be able to. This also makes the Mats wanting to play in New York rumours make more sense; Gomez would still be the number one centre, and Sundin would either go to the second line or play the wing. If they lost it wouldn't really be that big a deal, and it probably wouldn't be blamed on him. Quite frankly, this to me makes Mats Sundin a coward, a lazy hockey player who would rather collect a paycheque, openly talk after games about why the team is so bad and what they have to do to be better, and be admired for it by gushing Toronto fans and media who all talk about what a stand up guy he is, shame he doesn't have better players, why, if he had wingers like they have on other teams he'd be so good. The truth is that Sundin loves the spotlight and adulation, but is afraid of failure and afraid of the pressure expectations bring. He's afraid of going someplace like Montreal, where he wouldn't just be asked to score almost a point per game, but to score at critical moments, backcheck, play hard, and generally lead. Clearly you can't build winning organizations around players like Mats Sundin. He and the Leafs, if they're dumb enough to bring him and his country club attitude towards hockey back, deserve each other.
Troy (Posted 2008-07-28 16:37:50)
Blowtrees...I'm sure no one wants to tank an entire season but Leaf fans demand more than just making the playoffs (although it's been nearly 3yrs for them now). Your either a contender (teams who build for the long haul like the Wings, Pens, etc), a pretender (teams who look like playoff contenders but are ousted in the 1st round like the Bruins, Nashville etc) or your a rebuilder (teams that are utilizing youth now for playoff dreams later like the Hawks, Oilers etc). The Leafs haven't been doing any of these for a long while.
shamos (Posted 2008-07-28 16:35:16)
Red,
believe what you want about the Habs, call them pretenders, but the fact of the matter is if the Habs are pretenders, but the Leafs in the last two decades haven't been competitive (maybe 93) or will they be in the near future.
I'm content with my Habs making play-off runs while the Leafs squander their seasons in front of obnoxious ignorant fans. Because yeah, a guy like Tucker was/is a great example of a "hard" worthy hockey player, he plays more like a pansy than anyone in the league. Another reason I don't want Sundin in a Habs uniform is because I hate how he cheap shots after whistles then skates away, I would give anything to see Lecavalier or Iginla put him in his place.
Laraque-Komisarik-Kostopoulos clearly play a non-physical game.
MGF (Posted 2008-07-28 16:33:43)
Troy, don't you think Sundin will figure out that if he doesn't get a no-trade clause that they will in fact trade him come deadline time? The guy isn't stupid. I guarentee he won't sign in Toronto without one because he has public stated he doesn't believe in the rent-a-player idea. Besides, Fletcher has already told the media that a no-trade contract is being offered to Sundin. Of course it'd be nice to get something for him, but Sundin is a classy guy and the classy thing to do, as a Management team, is to not trade him to your rival and turn the fans against him as Cliff wanted.
Blowtrees (Posted 2008-07-28 16:24:15)
The leafs would be fools to not take him back, when they can have both. They're a better team with Sundin whether he plays 18 minutes or 28. Rebuilding or not, their immediate job is to win hockey games, not to just compete someday.
Troy (Posted 2008-07-28 16:21:51)
Thanks for the correction Red, but don't you think by doing that he's hurt the franchise?? It's conceivable now that he could go to Montreal for nothing thus leaving the Leafs with nothing to show, for the best Leaf in how long?? Sign him to a 1yr deal w/out the no-trade clause or don't bother. That money could be saved for next year or an impending trade this year. As an Oiler fan I've seen this before, sort of. You can't really afford to sign the guy but you don't want him to leave for nothing.
Red (Posted 2008-07-28 16:13:31)
Troy, they never moved Sundin for "high picks" because Sundin had a no trade clause and he rejected Cliff Fletchers desire to trade him at the deadline to Montreal for Chris Higgins and other assets. Which by the way Shamos, is why he'll never become a Hab, not that I'd turn my back on him if he did, but he just knows you're a bunch of pretenders. Komisarek may be tough but he ain't tough enough for the rest of the girls in red. Your guys sure play like you're French, even if they ain't, I'll give you that.
Erik (Posted 2008-07-28 16:09:00)
Thank you for finally pointing out that Sundin isn't the only player in the NHL waiting to make their decision. Any real Canadian should be more concerned about whether Joe Sakic will play. He has arguably been one of the best Canadian players over the last 10 to 12 years and he can still play at this level. He's won two Stanely Cups, and an Olympic Gold medal. Sundin's one Gold medal was impressive but he has failed to leave his mark on the NHL since his name isn't on the cup. I think its a shame that Sundin gets more attention from Canadian media than Sakic. When either Sakic or Sundin retire, Sundin will get more attention from Canadian media just because he played in Toronto, never mind what Sakic has done, he never played in Toronto so he isn't as important I guess. The Canadian media needs to take a look in the mirror and shake their heads.
A.K. (Posted 2008-07-28 16:00:17)
No matter how old he gets and no matter how many games he may miss to injury, all Mats does is score over a point a game for AT LEAST 72 points. He does this with woefully untalented offensive linemates. He'd be a ninety point player on many other teams. He tries his best and never complains and always plays well and leads the team. And people want to accuse him of being selfish if he wants to remain a Leaf - why? so that they won't be absolutely HORRIBLE without him and unable to land a high draft pick? That is ridiculous. I'm happy the Penguins are good again but it's pathetic that for them to get where they are today, they had to suck for YEARS and collect high draft picks. The Red Wings don't do that. The Devils don't do that. They;re just consistently good. is it Sundin's fault the Leafs have a history of drafting poorly and making bad trades? No.
so i hope he plays for the Leafs this year. He'll lead the team in scoring AGAIN. With over thirty goals and seventy points AGAIN. He'll do it with little offensive support AGAIN. And will it be enough to get them into the playoff? Probably not. But is that his fault? He should step aside so they can be truly terrible this year and finish near to last? That is just so asinine I can't begin to express it properly.
Mats is a player. It his job to PLAY. it is up to management to handle the other stuff, not him. How anyone can jump all over a player for simply PLAYING and playing WELL is beyond me. stupid article.
Shamos (Posted 2008-07-28 15:51:35)
I think this article is foolish and is just hockey tabloid journalism. Much like all the Brian Burke to Toronto BS.
In my opinion,Sundin will likely either retire or become a Hab.
I think that he is taking is time to consider whether he really wants to go to a rival franchise and compete, or retire. Both are very touch choices. Of course if this happens leafs fans will turn their back on their best player of the last decade. I'm a Habs fan and I don't know if I want Sundin, because of his age and health, however the Habs need more firepower offensively and Sundin could aid in that department.
If the Habs won the cup with Sundin, it would be much like Bourque in Colorado, a great hockey story. However I believe the ungreatful Leaf fans would not be as appreciative as the great fans of Boston.
Troy (Posted 2008-07-28 15:49:35)
BTW...If the Leafs truly want to become a better TEAM, they will not sign Mats for 1yr, with a no-trade clause. Why they never moved him before for some high picks etc etc is beyond me. He has crippled the franchise in the last 3yrs, by not being traded. The Leafs can't afford to lose Mats for nothing.
jan (Posted 2008-07-28 15:48:58)
Sundin, Sakic, and Selanne all have tough decisions to make. Each of them are a class act. If they choose to retire, I wish them well. If they continue playing, I hope they are treated with the respect they have earned.
Troy (Posted 2008-07-28 15:45:17)
Matt F...Weight had contributed 3G 13A in 23games before getting sandwiched by Torres & Prongs in game 3 of the Finals. 16pts was a BIG contribution. Barbie...as much as Sundin enjoys all his success internationally, I think Ken was referring to the NHL success that Teemu has. Rookie of the year (which included 76G) & a Stanley Cup in 2007= +1 Teemu. Teemu has a better PPG ave than Sundin with only 3 less goals in 238 less games played than Sundin = even. Sundin has an 8pt edge in 9 less games than Teemu when it comes to the playoffs = even. Ask Mats if he'd give up his international prowess for 1 Cup? Teemu has had BETTER success but both players are similar in talent. The Nords seemed to have kept the right guy in Sakic over Sundin...but that too I'm sure is debatable.
J.G. (Posted 2008-07-28 15:43:30)
I'm sure Mats is a real nice guy and everything, but no contending NHL team should want him. If's he's content with "winning" his Olympic medal (and by "winning, I might mean being fortunate enough to be in the same uniform with guys like Lidstrom, Foresberg and Zetterberg--he may have worn the C, but let us be honest, he was not the leader of that team) then he has no business playing in the NHL where the ultimate goal is to WIN the Stanley Cup. Why do teams want to win the Stanley Cup? Because that's a minimum 8 more home games to sell out, loads o' endorsements and everything else, ie money. They want to win the Cup because it fills their pockets. Mats on the other hand seems to be happy going home when the whistle blows at the end of the first week of April. Which I guess is why Toronto's been such a nice fit for him. Because Toronto's one of those exceptions, with an NFL mindset that if you can still fill your arena with fans without a winning product, then why go through the effort? And that Mats has wallowed in such a poor environment for as long as he has just gives further evidence that any team with Stanley Cup dreams shouldn't bother. The Leafs and Sundin deserve each other, but Toronto fans deserve better. It's time for Mats to head back to Sweden and play some pond hockey with the neighbor kids if that's the kind of love for the game he has. Don't waste teams' time signing a bloated contract if you don't intend to play beyond game 82.
It's still telling to me that Quebec/Colorado traded Sundin away back in 94, which makes it all the more interesting comparing him to Sakic. It's not like this was an Iginla or Marty St. Louis where Quebec wasn't sure what they were giving up--Sundin had 114 fricking points two seasons earlier. They didn't get much back for him really, either, in terms of talent--but they WON the Stanley Cup not long after. They were a better team without him.
Barbie (Posted 2008-07-28 15:00:35)
Sundin's career infinitely better than Selanne's? Really? Sundin has Olympic Gold (and an All-star in 2002), three World Championship gold medals (and All-Star in two of them), nine-time NHL All-Star, and the Leafs all-time leading scorer. Selanne has none of the international success that Sundin has. He was born in the wrong country? Just like Sundin was once traded to the wrong team.
Greg (Posted 2008-07-28 14:46:21)
First time I will be doing this, but I'm gonna agree with the Flyer fan. Yes, Sundin may be the Leafs all time points leader, and may have been responsible for getting them deeper in the playoffs than they should have been most of the time. However, when you get down to it, how many Cups? How many individual achievements like Art Ross, or even Lady Byng's for that matter? How many Conn Smythes? I know that a great player doesn't necessarily have to have these things, but if we're going to compare Mats to Mr. Sakic, it's something worth looking at. Not "hating" on Mr. Sundin, but let's wake up and smell the Cup drought in Toronto...
Flyer guy 16 (Posted 2008-07-28 14:28:48)
I'm not a Sundin hater, I don't think it's fair to look only at Cups but Sundin had just as good a career as Sakic? Get serious.
Nelson Fredrick (Posted 2008-07-28 14:13:00)
Cambell, don;t like your continous negativity. Getting Sundin back with is great for the leafs. No sense me explaining why you would not understand. Any apprecaitive hockey fan should thank Mat for all his service to the leafs, and while I really like Joe Sakic, Mats has had just a good a career.
Mike (Posted 2008-07-28 13:58:47)
Moosetard, if Captaining a team to Olympic Gold is a loser then you must be insecure and hate yourself. Go cry and cuts your wrists so we can stop reading you bash people who are far more successful and important than you are.
Isaac Holmes (Posted 2008-07-28 13:55:53)
For all the years of loyal service Sundin has given the leafs, the leafs owe him a spot on thier team...I'm very close to giving up my Leaf fandom and it has nothing to do with the talent on the team but with how the team is managed. If Mats wants back, bring him back, let him know it's in a reduced role. To simply say that he's not wanted would be horrifying? Could you image Colorado doing that with Sakic? And I pray that if he comes back they better not pull the same trade deadline stuff again.
Pat Stewart (Posted 2008-07-28 13:54:50)
First off, Let it be known that I am neither a fan of the Leafs, or of Sundin for that matter. With that out of the way, I have to say that I disagree, for the most part with your assessment on this. Sure, the Leafs need to re-build. There are no doubts about that. But they need to rebuild their reputation within the league as well. Sure, they may not WANT big name free agents this season, but what about next year (or, more realistically, next decade)? As it is, the big name players have no desire to go to Toronto, and its not just because of the media, which is, of course a big factor. But the other factor is the fact that this org. is a joke, and treats their talent like trash half the time. There is a reason guys take less to play for the Red Wings, and its not just the chance to win. Its the rep. of being a great team, as well as the well known fact that the Ilitches and the rest of the org. takes care of their own. Look at the Darren McCarty story, for instance. If the Leafs were to give Sundin the ol' "No Thanks", they'd just be adding to their garbage reputation. As the most accomplished (statistically) Leaf of all time, he should be given the option of finishing his career with the team, as long as he can still play, and we all know he can. Its not like putting Paul Coffey out to pasture here, where he just stayed too long, Sundin will be the best player on the team if he's on it. And he deserves it even more if he is not wanting to sign with Montreal because of the rivalry ties there. It may not be in the best interests of the Leafs' draft position to bring him back, but in terms of organizational respectability, and to show the league that there is at least SOME class in Toronto, it would be the best move they can make. Do you think the Wings would have let Yzerman go play somewhere else had he chosen to play one more season?
Matt F (Posted 2008-07-28 13:52:53)
Great article Ken. As for Sundin wanting to come back to the Leafs, I think he's just an optimist. He is a classy individual with principals and wants to retire to classy way, with his organization, as Captain. The dream would be to win the Stanley Cup, but winning it in Toronto is the only thing that fills that dream as impossible as that is to achieve now. You have to admit seeing Doug Weight lift that Cup for Carolina after coming over as a rental, getting injured and contributing nothing felt pretty empty, undeserved. Sundin wants to win the right way, and I can't blame him. Should the leafs take him back? Probably not, but with Wellwood gone and no future franchise centres to develop yet I don't think it matters that much, its not like we're Phoenix and have Kyle Turris waiting in the system. Maybe Tlusty-Kulemin should be the top two centres, but they will just get destroyed. Let Sundin win them a few games so they have some confidence at least and back Tlusty on the wing, if they need to get rid of anyone in their top 6 its Blake. He has a horrible team attitude, he's selfish, only wants to stack his numbers and will give up offensive opportunities for others so he can keep the puck. He's no kind of leader to mentor young kids, at least Sundin can help that way.
MooseIsTheMan (Posted 2008-07-28 13:46:53)
Favre= champion, Sundin= loser (or non-winner for you leaf fans)
Packers= person in place to take over the reigns
Leafs= no body around to take over, poor management
Favre= heart
Sundin= not willing to go to a contender, draw your own conclusion's(leaf fans for you this means loser)
PS> why try to sign a guy with no heart and tell the only guy on the team who loves the leafs (except CuJo) to sit at home and not come to camp
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