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THN.com Blog: Lidstrom - No. 1 Euro; No. 2 blueliner of all time

Red Wings defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom has an impressive resume already and he still has good years ahead of him.

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Red Wings defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom has an impressive resume already and he still has good years ahead of him.

The debate was interesting, but not terribly long when we were determining The Hockey News cover feature for our European issue, due to come out next week.

Nicklas Lidstrom is our cover boy, plain and simple. The best European-trained player ever in the NHL.

A case was made for Jaromir Jagr, the five-time scoring champion and destined to be the top-scoring European for long time to come. Jari Kurri had a lot of support, as did Dominik Hasek. But the more we studied the facts and figures, the more it became obvious.

Senior writer Mike Brophy wrote a terrific cover story on Lidstrom for the European issue.

A quote from Detroit GM Ken Holland pretty much said it all why Lidstrom goes down as the top European ever to play in the NHL: “For the last 10 years we’re near the top of the league in points, he plays almost 30 minutes a game, always against the other team’s best players, he’s always one of the highest-scoring defensemen, most years we’re near the top of the league in power play, most years we’re near the top of the league in penalty-killing and most years we’re near the top of the league in goals against. He plays every critical situation. We won three Stanley Cups and five Presidents’ Trophies. We’ve been to the final four times in the last 12 seasons and he has been the one constant.”

It got me thinking. Is Lidstrom the best defenseman ever to play the game? Better even than the immortal Bobby Orr?

In a word, no. There’s not even a fair debate in that comparison. Orr re-defined the game and goes down, in some people’s books, as the best player ever, ahead of even Wayne Gretzky.

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So Lidstrom is not in Orr’s ballpark, but when all is said and done for the 37-year-old Red Wing – who is showing no signs of slowing down – can he go down as the No. 2 defenseman of all-time?

Old-time hockey fans will preach that Doug Harvey deserves that status. A seven-time winner of the Norris Trophy as top defenseman, he finished sixth overall in The Hockey News definitive 1997 list of the 50 best NHL players of all-time – behind Gretzky, Orr, Gordie Howe, Mario Lemieux and Maurice Richard. Harvey played in the Original Six era and had no peers.

The next generation of hockey fans will make a case for Ray Bourque, who finished eighth in Top 60 Since 1967, a recently released book written by Ken Campbell and Adam Proteau of The Hockey News. One spot behind him in ninth is Lidstrom.

Armchair fans will have fun debating whether or not Lidstrom, in the final few seasons of his career, can pass Bourque.

Here’s a quick tally sheet of leaders as it stands now: points (Bourque 1,579 to 888); Norris Trophies (five each); Norris runners-up (Bourque 6 to 3); first-team all-stars (Bourque 13 to 8); second-team all-stars (Bourque 6 to 0); and, Stanley Cups (Lidstrom 3 to 1). Lidstrom also won a Conn Smythe; Bourque won a Calder.

My vote goes to Lidstrom. He still has fuel in the tank to make the successful pass.

COMMENTS (48)

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Adam Posted
(2009-04-30 07:50:26)



The basis for Orr being the top defenceman is ALWAYS how he 'revolutionized' the game, e.g. he scored a lot for a defenceman. WOO HOO. Why in the name of creation should a defenceman be judged on his scoring ability. Lidstrom scores A LOT and makes excellent DEFENSIVE plays night in and night out. There's only one fault I see in him; he's Swedish, not Canadian. Sorry Nick your legacy will be clouded by your nationality...no wonder so many people like Don Cherry. I mean how the heck do the Wings keep winning with so many foreigners. Everyone knows only Canadians are good hockey players, RIGHT???!!!!!
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Fredrik Posted
(2009-04-30 07:39:44)



Lots of Americans and Canadians writing here i can see,Nicklas Lidstrom is the best defenseman of all time! U yankees and canucks can say whatever u want.
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Mike Posted
(2009-04-30 07:25:47)



Great debate. Lidstrom vs. Bourque, Coffey, Orr. Lidstom vs. Jagr, Statsny, etc. I have followed everyones career with the exception of Orr although I have seen quite a bit of footage and have heard the stories. Best Defenseman -- Orr changed the game. Rightfully #1. The way Lidstrom can control a game is a real joy to watch. Bourque was the better all-around offensive defensive player but the way Lidstrom can control a game especially with the way the NHL has changed the rules (hooking, grabbing, etc.) is truly remarkable. You have to be a true hockey fan to see and appreciate the subtle ways he can open a play offensively and the way he can read a play and break it down defensively. For all the people that say Lidstrom isn't physical and wouldn't hold up against physical players of old but last time I checked players are bigger and stronger now. He puts himself in position to make a play for the puck then make a check. You can not argue the different generations or the contrasting styles of any players for an all-time list. What if Ted Williams didn't go to war during his prime. Would he be considered better than the Babe if he hadn't? Who knows? We all have out favorites from our era and have our biased opinions for our hometown teams. Be thankful that you can witness true greatness when you can because there is a new generation of players that will be labeled as the 2nd coming of so-and-so that you kids will tell you that is the best of all-time.
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Thomas P Posted
(2009-04-30 07:19:01)



D- Men protects the net and offensive players = Score goals We have to differ: All time good D-Men : Ray Bourqe, Bobby Orr All time Offensive D-Men: Lidstrom and Coffey and others.. I would have put coffey and lidstrom in the first lines. Bourqe is a effective off and Def. he could check someguys out of their boots.. Defensive guys are there to stop other guys from scroing.. That doesnt mean that player like Chelios, Stevens, Blake, Pronger are not good.. am i right or not..
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Jeff Clifton Posted
(2009-04-30 07:16:18)



Randy, You dont know anything do you? Did you WATCH Ray Bourque EVER? Oh thats right, you saw him on a "number" of occasions. You are going to tell these hockey fans that Rays D was TERRIBLE???? So you have convinced yourself Ray Bourque left his D-partner stranded for 2-on-1's his whole career? Sorry, thats NOT how you garnish a +528 rating, 200 marks BETTER than Lidstrom. Ray Bourque was a MASTER in his own zone. The Bruins never got scored on when he was on the ice. Do you even know what a +/- rating is Randy?!?!?!?! Its morons like you that know very little about hockey, yet continue to shock the real fans with your "facts". Try studying the game a little harder, and making your own opinions based on those facts. Not what all the analysts are telling you.
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randy paduchowski Posted
(2009-04-30 07:09:45)



I've read the comments of these readers and have to say that most of them are way off.Yes orr was the greatest defenseman of all time.But no way does pronger, neidermeyer,coffey,or even ray bourque come close to the dominance that lidstom has shown over the last 10 years.Yes bourque did win 5 norris trophies but lidstrom now has 6 in seven years.Doug harvey played against 5 other teams so he shouldn't even be considered.As for bourque and coffey while they did put up some great offensive numbers for a defenseman their defense was terrible.I saw coffey play on a number of occasions as well as coffey,bourque and chelios.They are and were offensive minded but man when they got beat it was ugly.I can't say that about lidstrom he has been one of the best shut down defenseman I've ever seen.While his offensive numbers may not be as gaudy as coffey or bourque thats because he actually plays his position.bourque and coffey were constantly inside the blueline trying to be forwards and leaving their defensive partners out on an island by themselves to get caught in 2 on ones and breakaways.You don't see that from nick plus every defensive partner he has played with seems to have a career year playing with him because they all know that nick is there to cover their back if they make a mistake.
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Paul Posted
(2009-04-30 06:40:29)



Being the first European born and trained Stanley cup captain, Conn Smythe, Norris winner is another testimony. He is the best Euro...hands down..
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Frank Posted
(2009-04-30 06:26:15)



With all the talent today and all the speed and the fact that you get called a penality for touching a guy now, Lidstrom has still dominated his field. Ray was awesome and did great things idividually, but if I could pick two d man to be on my team it would be Bobby Orr and Nicklas Lidstrom no doubt about it. Lidstrom has been unbeatable for the last decade. His defense is untouchable, his passing the best, and he almost never ever makes a miskate in about 28 mins of play a game, agianst players like crosby, Malkin, AO, Gabroik and so many others. He can play anybody in any sitution and he wins! He does every thing so well it often gets overlooked. No one could skate like Orr and that puts him basicaly on this on level like the great one, But amoung people of this world I would trust Lidstrom to get the job done over Ray, or potvin, or coffy. That to me makes Lidstrom the 2nd best d man of all time. And by the way he is not done yet. 38 and still the man, cant find that anywhere else.
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Ron Posted
(2009-04-30 06:23:34)



Hmm, Lidstrom is good, but he has to rank behind people like Bourque, Potvin, Coffey, Eddie Shore, Doug Harvey and Larry Robinson. It's too bad that Lidstrom couldn't have played in the era before today's boring robot hockey. Oh yes, Bobby Orr was in another galaxy.
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David M Posted
(2009-04-30 06:21:47)



This is what separates D-men from others. There are different types, offensive , defensive, hard-hitters. I will reluctantly have to say that Bourque is probably the best all-around d-man. The thing people knock against him is that he never got a chance to show his stuff with a good team. However, the Bruins were one of the best teams in the league for a good 10/15 years. They were never able to attract a big name star since this was Ray's Team and Sinden assured him nobody would ever make more than him. Lidstrom is probably the smartest player ever, any position, but put him in Boston in Ray's era and then put Ray in Detroit in the 90's. Ray would still have about 5 Norris Trophies and a couple of Cups while Lidstrom would be a flop. While I do agree that Orr is the best player of his era, keep in mind that the NHL was very watered down, most of the best Euro players were not in the NHL,the WHA was siphoning off talent and the League went from 6 teams to 12 and kept adding more and more. I'll admit some stars of the 80's also had inflated stats because goalies were pretty horrendous, but the 70's were an absolute joke.
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